Pocket Js - 3 straight card flop - help!?

HouseCalls · #1 11-14-2005, 09:56 PM

No reads sorry

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB folds.

Flop: (9 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero?

My once "premium" hand started to feel pretty weak pretty fast. Suggestions?

McGahee · #2 11-14-2005, 09:59 PM

Check, call unless it's 2 back to you. I'm not good at math but I know you'd be getting 10:1 with 11:1 gutshot odds with lousy implied odds, so you might even fold if the bet comes from your right and the game's aggressive at all.

HouseCalls · #3 11-14-2005, 10:03 PM

yeah plus the fact that its a one card gutshot so I may be 11:1 to split the pot.

Loved the pooh-bah post [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Nikademus · #4 11-14-2005, 10:03 PM

Check/call, hope for a K or runner flush. Any serious action, and throw your hand away.

#5 11-14-2005, 10:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My once "premium" hand started to feel pretty weak pretty fast. Suggestions?

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate it when that happens. I would probably c-c for one and c-f for two. The only card you can be really happy with is a King and for one bet you basically have odds to draw. Another J could easily give you a powerful second-best hand to someone's straight so proceed with caution if that's what happens.

numeri · #6 11-14-2005, 10:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Check/call, hope for a K or runner flush. Any serious action, and throw your hand away.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd prefer runner runner K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

But seriously, this is a rough spot. I check and wait to see the action. I'll call one and see the turn, but not two.

#7 11-14-2005, 10:05 PM

I probably check/call. I always hate having to check after raising preflop and giving up the lead, but this board is really coordinated with a lot of draws. Not to mention there are obviously 2 overcards to your pair.

#8 11-14-2005, 10:28 PM

Fold. And it's not close.

Your GS is likely for half the pot, subject to redraws and totally transparent.

Runner-runner is this hands only hope. And all a screwed.
Any turn card that gives you a chance at your BD draws is likely faced with heavy turn action destroying your flop odds.
eg. K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J.

IMO. Calling is -EV.

Mathieu · #9 11-14-2005, 11:39 PM

* grunch *

Keeping in mind that this is 0.10/0.20, you did not mention anything about how aggressive the table was, so I will assume LOOSE PASSIVE. I think your opponents could have wide range of hands here.

I am not sure if betting is better than checking, so here is my little analysis.

Arguments for betting: You may have the best hand vs 3 loose opponents and they will likely call with hands that you can beat such as a Tx, Kx, Jx. So betting has some value. It could also make the rest of the hand easier to play by making it HU vs a very LOOSE Passive opponent against which we could bet/fold this all the way. Not sure that this last reason is valid though.

Arguments for checking: It saves us money if we are behind. If we bet and get raised, we have pot odds to continue. So we would rather draw for less. Not so many free cards that can hurt us. Checking allows us to use the action to make better decision, if it goes bet/raise we can save money by folding.

* Against more opponents I would be more incline to check and against less I would be more inclined to bet. Here I would check.

Also, I am not sure if this reasoning is correct, but I would feel better about betting if I could fold and be done with the hand. But here I think I would have to call the raise, so I prefer checking to make it cheap.

#10 11-15-2005, 01:41 AM

*grunchy*

Take a swing and evaluate the action behind. I think it's kind of weak to raise pf and then check this kind of flop. You may fold 1-2 players here, but get called by a weak ace or king. If you are raised, you have 3 outs to a straight (spade not clean), 2 outs to a set (both unclean), so this is starting to look yucky. If you are faced with a 3-bet, then I think it's an easy fold. We are probably check/folding the turn UI tho. Hell now I'm thinking we should just check/fold this flop. I'M WEAK!