20-40...Would You Ever Check This River? - Page 3

Diplomat · #21 03-10-2004, 02:31 AM

The call pre-flop is fine.

-Diplomat

astroglide · #22 03-10-2004, 03:20 AM

i would actually want LESS limpers to play JTo because it lowers my odds of being dominated

elysium · #23 03-10-2004, 04:58 AM

hi jeff
jeff you have the lead. you need to bet for value. you've got the nuts. bet man.

elysium · #24 03-10-2004, 05:07 AM

hi jeff
i'm tired. i just put together my mr. astronomy and i've been looking for twinklers. there are some crazies who swear that the twinklers are some kind of invasion. well, last night i saw a twinkler and thought we we're being invaded too. according to my mr. astronomy 4.5 planetarium kit however, the twinklers have been are all still in place and have been twinkling for eons.

you read these reports made by people posting who really believe that twinklers are something other than stars, and you start seeing the dang things too.

now, i need to buy an orb kit.

anyway, bet.

DcifrThs · #25 03-10-2004, 10:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The call pre-flop is fine.

-Diplomat

[/ QUOTE ]

I trust your opinion here, Diplomat. i've read many of your posts and those included in the older archives and do believe you when you say this preflop call is ok. HPFAP also says in this late a position these calls are ok. but how much am i giving up by passing them? i honestly do not remember the last time i played jto. i think it was in a 2/4, 3/6, or 5/10 game on the button maybe...but qj is like my "cutoff" and i really don't play jto, t9o, 98o, 87o and the like...maybe i can add jto in position in the situation described but if i don't have control of a game i fear this hand will just get me introuble.

please advise on this aspect of play and if you think i'm really hurting myself by not playing these hands. as it stands right now i will continue to toss them but now i will play the hand out in my head as if i played it and see what i would have done in different situations that invariably arise with these trouble spots.

maybe i just doubt my game a bit in this spot and that could be a leak. well at least now i'll go review this aspect of the game and think about it so any help you can provide will be appreciated.

thanks
-Barron

Diplomat · #26 03-10-2004, 11:13 AM

Well, you really are not giving up too much by folding this hand -- you almost never are by playing a bit too tight pre-flop. But I disagreed with AJo because he seemed to suggest that the pre-flop call is always bad, which it's not.

-Diplomat

AJo Go All In · #27 03-10-2004, 11:17 AM

not to be nitpicky, but i don't think i suggested that at all. i simply suggested (stated) that i would fold preflop.

Paluka · #28 03-10-2004, 11:32 AM

I actually think this preflop call is pretty bad unless the limpers are extremely loose/bad players. You can easily be dominated here.
As for the idea that money is made post-flop at these limits: hard for this to be true with JTo if you often make your straight and have to check the river.
Jeffage from everything I've seen you just don't play tight enough. I still remember a Partypoker hand from a few months ago where I 3 bet preflop from the sb in a multiway hand and you cold called from the big blind with KQo. The flop came K high, you played your hand aggressively and I took a lot of bets off you. After the hand I was stunned that you made that sort of mistake. I think this happens when you play live poker instead of online. When you are playing 4 or 5 tables at once you aren't tempted to play JTo or KQo for a raise. You have better things to do- make money.

Baltimore Ron · #29 03-10-2004, 12:55 PM

Jeff,

I seriously doubt the likelihood of either opponent having a full house. Here's why:

If button had an overpair (and we're concerned specifically with QQ here) there is no way he checks behind on the flop. I'd also expect the button to bet out a set on this semi-dangerous flop.

The BB is only slightly less readable. It is *possible* that he flopped a set or 89 two-pair and missed a chance for a flop checkraise. However, with you representing the straight on the turn, I wouldn't expect him to run the risk of losing bets on the river when you check behind on a paired board.

Bet the river for value.

BR

PS: Good to see you last weekend. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Jeffage · #30 03-11-2004, 06:14 PM

I appreciate all the responses. On the river, I bet, the button folded and my opponent checkraised me again. I called and was shown 98o for a rivered boat. Talk about a weird way to play two pair. I appreciate thoughts on preflop...I'm starting to second guess what I thought was a no brainer call. I agree that checking the river would be scared poker. Thanks again.

Jeff