Potowatomi collusion

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know how the 'floor' works (never been inside a rela casino) but if there are multiple floormen can't you call for another person for a second opinion. Also I would have said "Well, I AM making that serious accusation, I've thought about and yes, these assholes are colluding, 100%, no grey area, I'm accusing them."

[/ QUOTE ]

That's basically what I said: I AM making a serious accusation... because they ARE colluding. I think the other players at the table just wanted it to be a 'friendly' 2/4 game and I was viewed as the guy who was getting loud and ruining the good time.

Of course, I got loud after being blown off by the floor. All he did (after scolding me for my accusation) is remind the guy (by name, since he knew him and seemed to like him) that he shouldn't be talking during the play. Kind of like, 'just make the crazy loud guy (me) happy and stay quiet for a while.'

Then the dealer looks at me and says all sternly, "It's OVER."

That's when I left, more angry than I have been in years. As for the guy who called me a narc, the funny thing is that I really am a cop. I left wishing that it was an underground game, because I don't think that those punks would have made it out in one piece.

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
I am not sure how bad the Bump it up comment is. I have been at tables where people get crazy and just cap PF blind. Its not like there is an advantage there for them. The advantage in that scenario is actually yours, since you dont have any money in the pot yet, and can only enter is with premiums. The always raising people out, and then signal comments are collustion. But the blind raising is usually just for fun.

C-Dog

[/ QUOTE ]

Say nobody had heard their comment and also that the other players at the table were relatively weak. So, there's $7 in the pot pre-flop. UTG raises and his buddy re-raises. If nobody has a strong hand, they take the kill and both blinds w/o any problem. Then of course, if somebody does call, they're playing the hand 2 against 1. How is that not an advantage???

[yoadrians]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm used to playing mainly SNGs onlin and am relatively inexperienced in B&M cardrooms. Anyway, this happened to me the other day at Potowatomi in Milwaukee. I'd like to know what the proper way to handle this would have been:

I'm playing 2/4 and 3 of the other players were college students who obviously knew each other. Over the course of a few hours at the table, the following took place:

1) The 'leader' of the college group "jokingly" said to the other two guys to 'give him a signal' if they have a good hand. Dealer says nothing.

2) I'm in a hand with 2 of the guys. I bet the river. The first to act after me looks at the other guy and says, "Are you going to call?" I object, they both fold. I call the floor over, nothing is done other than the floor reminding these guys that there is only one player per hand allowed.

3) It's a kill pot. Before the cards are dealt, the leader of their group whispers to the guy on his right (one of his friends) to 'bump it up'. Leader, who is UTG, raises, his friend to his right re-raises.

At this point, I had had enough and had the floor called over again. They did not seem to think that this was a big deal. Instead of throwing these guys out, the floor told me that I was making a 'very serious accusation' (collusion) and that I should watch what I accuse people of. This is even though the dealer and another player both heard this guy tell his friend to raise pre-flop before the cards were dealt.

At this point, I got up and left the casino. Would this type of thing ever fly in Vegas or was it too much for me to expect the floor to at the very least break this group of guys up?

BTW, I also noticed that any time one of them would bet post flop, the guy to his left would always raise. Once a person who was not in their group would drop out of the hand, the action would slow, there would be a bet and a fold w/o a hand being shown down the vast majority of the time. This was all pointed out to the staff of the poker room, in addition to the comments that they were making to each other, but fell on deaf ears.

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't surprise me at all. I live in the Madison area and used to play at Potowatomi every month or two. However, the last few times I've been there, I've had VERY bad experiences with floor and dealers. Frankly, the floor (middle-aged guy with blonde mustache) has been very rude both times I've called him over for questions. And the dealers are just not very-well trained.

I suggest taking your game to Oneida (dealers and floor are much better) in Green Bay, or making a trip every now and again to Canterbury in the Twin Cities (fantastic room).

Potowatomi just isn't very well-run at all, and it's not worth your time to go there again.

[henrikrh]

That the floor person knew the player you were accusing and then blew off your complaint is worrying. But now that you mention it, this is a bit much at 2/4, collusion is always wrong, but theses gus clearly weren't very good at it, tehy basically told you thta thtye would both be raising with almost any 2 cards in the kill pot, giving you plenty of info to beat them with. I'd say if the stakes were 4/8, maybe 5/10, this would be very veyr serious, 2/4 maaaaybe i let it slide.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm used to playing mainly SNGs onlin and am relatively inexperienced in B&M cardrooms. Anyway, this happened to me the other day at Potowatomi in Milwaukee. I'd like to know what the proper way to handle this would have been:

I'm playing 2/4 and 3 of the other players were college students who obviously knew each other. Over the course of a few hours at the table, the following took place:

1) The 'leader' of the college group "jokingly" said to the other two guys to 'give him a signal' if they have a good hand. Dealer says nothing.

2) I'm in a hand with 2 of the guys. I bet the river. The first to act after me looks at the other guy and says, "Are you going to call?" I object, they both fold. I call the floor over, nothing is done other than the floor reminding these guys that there is only one player per hand allowed.

3) It's a kill pot. Before the cards are dealt, the leader of their group whispers to the guy on his right (one of his friends) to 'bump it up'. Leader, who is UTG, raises, his friend to his right re-raises.

At this point, I had had enough and had the floor called over again. They did not seem to think that this was a big deal. Instead of throwing these guys out, the floor told me that I was making a 'very serious accusation' (collusion) and that I should watch what I accuse people of. This is even though the dealer and another player both heard this guy tell his friend to raise pre-flop before the cards were dealt.

At this point, I got up and left the casino. Would this type of thing ever fly in Vegas or was it too much for me to expect the floor to at the very least break this group of guys up?

BTW, I also noticed that any time one of them would bet post flop, the guy to his left would always raise. Once a person who was not in their group would drop out of the hand, the action would slow, there would be a bet and a fold w/o a hand being shown down the vast majority of the time. This was all pointed out to the staff of the poker room, in addition to the comments that they were making to each other, but fell on deaf ears.

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't surprise me at all. I live in the Madison area and used to play at Potowatomi every month or two. However, the last few times I've been there, I've had VERY bad experiences with floor and dealers. Frankly, the floor (middle-aged guy with blonde mustache) has been very rude both times I've called him over for questions. And the dealers are just not very-well trained.

I suggest taking your game to Oneida (dealers and floor are much better) in Green Bay, or making a trip every now and again to Canterbury in the Twin Cities (fantastic room).

Potowatomi just isn't very well-run at all, and it's not worth your time to go there again.

[/ QUOTE ]

one of the floor guys at Potowatomi travels to Canterbury to play quite often. you'd think he'd have picked up a few things on how to run a room.

[yoadrians]

[ QUOTE ]
Im completely on your side on this whole subject...but...how could telling the guy to raise before anyone sees his cards be colluding?

Sounds like chip spewing to me. Im sure they were tryng to intimidate everyone and definately were out of line, but I just dont see how they get any advantage from raising blind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's how it's collusion:

Because it's a kill pot ... one guy straddles, his buddy raises, no one else plays unless they have premium hands, the two guys check it down once everyelse is out of the hand, one guy makes the river bet, his buddy folds, and they split up all the money on the car ride home while they're laughing at their 'easy money' when they pull through the friggin' Wendy's drive-thru.

I would've flew off. But then again, I won't play there anymore because of exact situations like these.

[worm33]

haha if i saw this i would keep it to myself and win all their money. Its definitly to your advantage. What are you complaining about?

I think this is kind of a general problem with Indian gaming casinos. They don't have the same regulatory oversight that Vegas has. I was at a game where people were regularly making string bets and talking about their hole cards. It was bugging the crap out of me.

[MegumiAmano]

As far as the rules go, how is the "bump it up" comment before the cards were dealt any different than a group showing up at a table with the intention of magoo-ing it up and 5-betting everything in sight?

Serious question. I agree that the way the floor handled this situation was pretty bad.

[Sightless]

[ QUOTE ]
haha if i saw this i would keep it to myself and win all their money. Its definitly to your advantage. What are you complaining about?

[/ QUOTE ]

How so?