The importance of implied odds in NL HE.

#1 10-28-2005, 03:25 AM

I was arguing with this guy as to whether or not implied odds are applicable in NL Hold'em. He said that this is a LHE specific concept, and implied odds have no significance in NLHE. Can someone please outline the importance of implied odds in NLHE? He won't believe me.

#2 10-28-2005, 03:38 AM

If you own Super System or the Theory of Poker, the best example ever is inside. Doyle had 2 pair on the flop, Stu Ungar had a gutshot draw. Doyle made a bet, and Stu wasn't getting the price from the pot to call, but he was definitely getting the implied odds to call in relation to all the chips Doyle had left. He hit the straight and busted Doyle out.

soko · #3 10-28-2005, 09:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If you own Super System or the Theory of Poker, the best example ever is inside. Doyle had 2 pair on the flop, Stu Ungar had a gutshot draw. Doyle made a bet, and Stu wasn't getting the price from the pot to call, but he was definitely getting the implied odds to call in relation to all the chips Doyle had left. He hit the straight and busted Doyle out.

[/ QUOTE ]

This great example is also in HOH.

Implied odds are the reason you might play hands like 44 for a 3x bb raise agianst weaker opponents, while you will almost NEVER be getting your 8-1 odds before the flop, you might just take his whole stack by the river if he makes 2 pair or a strong top pair.

Rasputin · #4 10-28-2005, 02:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I was arguing with this guy as to whether or not implied odds are applicable in NL Hold'em. He said that this is a LHE specific concept, and implied odds have no significance in NLHE. Can someone please outline the importance of implied odds in NLHE? He won't believe me.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's an idiot.

Last night I had aces. A guy raised, I reraised, he called. Flop was all clubs and I had the ace club. He pushed, I called. He had flopped a set.

The four dollar re-raise that he called netted him my 70 dollar stack.

And yes, I am an idiot.

UATrewqaz · #5 10-28-2005, 04:10 PM

Implied odds are actually MORE impactful in NL.

Implied odds basically say "how much money will EVENTUALLY be in the pot"

and in NL this of course can be alot more.

Example, even if I KNOW you have AA and I have say 98s and I know you always push BIG on the flop with such a hand, I may be able to call a decent sized preflop bet, if we both have deep stacks, because I'm risking a little for the opportunity to win your whole stack.

soko · #6 10-28-2005, 04:15 PM

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Example, even if I KNOW you have AA and I have say 98s and I know you always push BIG on the flop with such a hand, I may be able to call a decent sized preflop bet, if we both have deep stacks, because I'm risking a little for the opportunity to win your whole stack.

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mmmm. if I KNOW you have AA then 89s is not the hand to try and get lucky with, you are looking at a 1-50 shot to make 2 pair/set or full house and a 1-120 shot to flop a flush, not sure about the straight, but it's probally around 1-70 to flop it, if you catch a flush draw or a straight draw, he is not going to give you odds to draw to it. therefore you don't have implied odds in this situation.

To further expand on your logic, calling ith 98s vs AA is no different than calling with 72s vs AA except you can't make a straight with both cards which is hardly of any value if you're only going to be able to hit it on the flop before he bets you off.

a pocket pair is really the only hand you would face aces with, you're a 1 in 8 shot to crush his hand.

UATrewqaz · #7 10-28-2005, 04:43 PM

Good point, 98s is more of a multi-handed example rather than heads up.

#8 10-28-2005, 04:50 PM

Mathematically, the best hand to play vs AA is 76s with no matching suits. But yes, implied odds are huge for NL as you can take somebody's entire stack when you flop a longshot and your initial investment is small.

soko · #9 10-28-2005, 05:06 PM

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Mathematically, the best hand to play vs AA is 76s with no matching suits.

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... If you get to see the turn and river for free, which you will not.

Pocket pair is mathematically the most likely hand to beat aces on the flop alone.

#10 10-28-2005, 05:08 PM

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... If you get to see the turn and river for free, which you will not, unless you already have a made hand on the flop.

Pocket pair is mathematically the most likely hand to beat aces on the flop alone.

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Fair enough, and I considered that point when I posted. What about the times when you don't precisely beat aces "on the flop" but have enough of a hand to stack your opponent (think along the lines of pair+flush/straight draw) anyway?

EDIT: There are also times when getting 50:1 odds to flop a longshot are enough to stack your opponent when you do (ie a 1-2 NL game and the smaller of your stacks is $350 and your opponent raises $7 preflop).