Two Plus Two Older Archives Who Won The Bet? A decisive poll
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 View Poll Results: What do you think? Clearly not collusion. 18 20.45% Possibly collusion but more info is needed. 46 52.27% Clearly is collusion. 2 2.27% Stop wasting time and notify Party Poker. Let them observe and decide. Just to be safe. 22 25.00% Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

#1
01-07-2005, 07:30 PM
 Billy Baroo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 114
Who Won The Bet? A decisive poll

#2
01-07-2005, 07:43 PM
 BruceZ Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,636
Agreement reached, poll unnecessary

MortalCombat and I agree . The key was your own words:

[ QUOTE ]
His bet was that I couldn't do the math that proves it, and he doesn't believe my answer.

[/ QUOTE ]

You did not provide any math that proves it. You did provide a formula which is correct for any number of outs, but you did not prove that this formula is correct, at least not on this forum. We both agree that your formula is correct, but that you didn't provide any math that proves it.
#3
01-07-2005, 09:10 PM
 Billy Baroo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 114
Re: Agreement reached, poll unnecessary

OK, thanks for your time. Guess it's time to pay up.
#4
01-08-2005, 11:27 PM
 TomBrooks Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: .5/1 Full Hand Posts: 671
Re: Agreement reached, poll unnecessary

[ QUOTE ]
Guess it's time to pay up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not so fast, Cowboy.

It comes down to what you bet on.

If you bet that you knew how to calculate, every time, the correct drawing odds with two cards to come given x number of outs, you win.

If you bet that you could provide a proper, correct, and accurate mathematical proof of your method that would survive the technical scrutiny of mathematicians, you may have lost.

This is my interim ruling with final decision withheld pending clarification of what you made a bet on.

- TomBk
#5
01-08-2005, 11:53 PM
 jtr Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: UK Posts: 310
Re: Agreement reached, poll unnecessary

Perhaps the linguistic ambiguity involved in the terms of the original bet makes it a split pot?
#6
01-09-2005, 12:50 AM
 BruceZ Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,636
Re: Agreement reached, poll unnecessary

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Guess it's time to pay up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not so fast, Cowboy.

It comes down to what you bet on.

If you bet that you knew how to calculate, every time, the correct drawing odds with two cards to come given x number of outs, you win.

If you bet that you could provide a proper, correct, and accurate mathematical proof of your method that would survive the technical scrutiny of mathematicians, you may have lost.

This is my interim ruling with final decision withheld pending clarification of what you made a bet on.

- TomBk

[/ QUOTE ]

You're correct that it came down to what he bet on, and we determined what he bet on based on his own very clear description of the bet from his original post:

[ QUOTE ]
Here's the bet. An acquaintance bet me that I don't know how to calculate how flop outs correspond to odds. For instance, most of us know that a flush draw in hold 'em has 9 outs, and is about 1.9: 1 on the flop. His bet was that I couldn't do the math that proves it, and he doesn't believe my answer.

[/ QUOTE ]

So to win the bet, he needed to do the math which proved the correspondence between flop outs and odds. For example, he needed to prove that 9 outs corresponds to 1.9:1, and he needed to do this for all other drawing odds of this type. There is no ambiguity here.

We concluded that he did not do the math that proved this correspondence. What he did was to write down an equation which happened to give the correct drawing odds for any number of flop outs. This equation represents the very correspondence between flop outs and odds which he was to prove. Therefore he needed to prove this equation. No such proof of this equation was ever given. Further, he as much as stated that he couldn't say why he thought this equation would work, meaning that he did not know how to prove that this equation represented the correct correspondence. Therefore he did not prevail in this bet.

It is ironic that we were initially consulted to evaluate whether or not a math problem was solved correctly, and we ended up needing to perform an almost legal function requiring logic to determine what the conditions of the bet were, and whether or not they were satisfied. Fortunately as mathematicians we are also competent in logic, so we felt perfectly qualified to make this determination unambiguously.

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