QQ hand - love it or hate?

[cs3]

Party 50NL 6 max (5-handed)

this is a hand i have a problem with... overpair out of positon, with a drawing board that hits.

Hero is CO with Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 44$ - been playing tight, just lost good sized pot on river that hit opponent

Button has $45-nothing too stupid yet, but has showndown a couple top pair hands (winning and losing) in large pots

BB has $67-hasnt got out of line yet

Hero open raises for 2, button calls BB calls

FLOP ($6) J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero bets 5, button calls 5, BB folds

Turn ($16) J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero checks, button bets 12, hero raises allin to ~36

horrible? ok? good? why?

results to follow, along with my reasoning (or lack of possibly).

[beavens]

hmm.. he's probably not folding that.. any reason you didnt lead the turn and fold to aggression?

[ravensfan]

Hate it.
With no read and a flush and paired board, im outta there.
He might've called with flush draw and overcard, or A4s, or something... Nothing wrong with dropping the hand, not too much is committed yet and the turn card isn't a nightmare, it's two at the same time. He might've been just playing 4x for the implied odds... who knows, i'm out though

unless i feel a) he's too loose or b)they've been trying to steal pots from me b/c i'm too tight/passive, in which case i'm ok with allin

[Marlow]

I think that you can get a little more info about your opponents hand before commiting your chips. I would suggest leading the turn for about 1/4 - 3/4 of the pot. If he pushes, then you can consider folding. If he calls, assume you are ahead and value bet a non- [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] river.

[cs3]

[ QUOTE ]
Hate it.
With no read and a flush and paired board, im outta there.
He might've called with flush draw and overcard, or A4s, or something... Nothing wrong with dropping the hand, not too much is committed yet and the turn card isn't a nightmare, it's two at the same time. He might've been just playing 4x for the implied odds... who knows, i'm out though

unless i feel a) he's too loose or b)they've been trying to steal pots from me b/c i'm too tight/passive, in which case i'm ok with allin

[/ QUOTE ]

well on the flop i put him on AJ/A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or some smallish flsuh draw. When the turn came out 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], that immediately elmintes A4s.
i figured it was about 50-50 he had hit his flush or had top pair. If he had a pair im good unless its KK or AA witha diamond. But thats very unlikely considering his preflop play... like maybe 5% of the time he has it.

If he has a made flush then i have 4 outs to boat up, and 7 outs to hit my fluuh on the river that is most likely good. Thats 11 outs to suckout if im behind, I may be ahead, and he may fold a small percent of the time with a non-nut hand that is beating me.
So i guess the question is how likely is he to have A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and not rasie my flop lead?
thats really the only hand that had me worried because he didnt play it like a set or a premium pair.

I still dont know if I like my play but thats my reasoning for pushing... anyone care to do the math?

[cs3]

why value bet only a non diamond river? i would my hand would be good more of the time when a 4th diamond hits than a non-diamond.

but you may be right. leading turn might have been better... need some resaoning to convince me of why. i jsut hat ethe fact that so many LAGs will push with any 2 cards if they see weak lead as a weakness

[ QUOTE ]
I think that you can get a little more info about your opponents hand before commiting your chips. I would suggest leading the turn for about 1/4 - 3/4 of the pot. If he pushes, then you can consider folding. If he calls, assume you are ahead and value bet a non- [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] river.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Marlow]

I don't know WTF I was thinking last night, but you obviously can't value bet the river if he's all-in on the turn!

Sorry about that.

[4_2_it]

Not a board I would attempt a steal. Someone please remind me what worse hand calls or what better hand folds here.

[pho75]

horrible

First off, how do you know button will bet?

Second, why are you trying to represent a flush when you already have a made hand?

[pho75]

[ QUOTE ]
i jsut hat ethe fact that so many LAGs will push with any 2 cards if they see weak lead as a weakness


[/ QUOTE ]

how do you know this guy is LAG? You said he hadn't done anything stupid yet, except show down a couple of good hands.