Plan.

cockandbull · #1 10-17-2005, 01:04 PM

Empire 5/10 short

Button opens (19/6/1.6 100 hands), i three bet with AhQs, bb calls(37/8/1.2 500 hands), buttons calls.

Flop Qc 7d 4h

bet, call, fold

turn 8c

bet, raise, whats my line?

wackjob · #2 10-17-2005, 01:21 PM

calldown time.

JohnnyHumongous · #3 10-17-2005, 01:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Empire 5/10 short

Button opens (19/6/1.6 100 hands), i three bet with AhQs, bb calls(37/8/1.2 500 hands), buttons calls.

Flop Qc 7d 4h

bet, call, fold

turn 8c

bet, raise, whats my line?

[/ QUOTE ]

Recently I've been making it a point to 3 bet in this situation.

cockandbull · #4 10-17-2005, 01:41 PM

if you three bet whats the plan for the rest of the hand. a couple of situations.

a/ he caps
b/ he call and raises a blank
c/ he calls and raises a club

bank · #5 10-17-2005, 02:57 PM

Why not raise flop?

witeknite · #6 10-17-2005, 03:39 PM

He's SB. He bet.

WiteKnite

TTChamp · #7 10-17-2005, 04:14 PM

I like call down here.

I don't think that a flush draw is likely. Wouldn't he cap preflop with AKc. AJc or maybe Atc is possible I guess.

I think that you are looking at KQ, 77, or maybe 88 here. He also could have a pocket pair like TT or 99.

If he has a Queen you are definately ahead and he will bet the river anyway==>not 3 betting only loses you one big bet.

If you are behind then you are drawing dead and not 3 betting saves you 2 big bets.

If he has a hand like 99 or TT then not 3 betting costs you 1 or 2 bets (he may fold to 3 bet).

If this guy has a clue then I would be concerned that he didn't raise the flop. If he played his hand well pf and on the flop then I have a hard time seeing how you are ahead.

I have been looking for opportunities to punish semi-bluffers a lot lately. I think the fact that a str8 draw is pretty much impossible here and that the broadway card on the board is a club is very significant.

Drontier · #8 10-17-2005, 04:24 PM

I take a very interesting line in these situations that I think nobody else takes. I tend to call the turn and c/r any river and fold to 3 bet. I just think that raising the turn represents such a stronger hand that players will never 3 bet you without you beat.

aba20 · #9 10-17-2005, 06:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I take a very interesting line in these situations that I think nobody else takes. I tend to call the turn and c/r any river and fold to 3 bet. I just think that raising the turn represents such a stronger hand that players will never 3 bet you without you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds like a great line, it also keeps him betting if he has air.

JohnnyHumongous · #10 10-17-2005, 06:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I take a very interesting line in these situations that I think nobody else takes. I tend to call the turn and c/r any river and fold to 3 bet. I just think that raising the turn represents such a stronger hand that players will never 3 bet you without you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with this is the "free" card you give. Half-decent opponents are fully aware of the free-showdown raise in position and I can see it being employed by the BB with almost any pair here. You allow him to catch his 5 outer and THEN you're gonna checkraise?? Even checkcalling sucks because he bets when he improves to 2 pair or whatever and checks his underpairs. Other possibilities are a draw semi-bluff which of course you want to charge.

If your read is that he more or less won't raise without 2 pair or better (and I have this note for many opponents) then clearly, calling down is best or even folding river if your read is strong enough.