Sevens

Trix · #1 06-16-2005, 06:27 AM

PFR:33/18/2.5 (enough hands)
Limper:42/14/1.7 (100 hands)
BB:29/23/2

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, CO raises, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, UTG calls.

 Whats the lowest pair you 3bet here? 

Flop: (7 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)

Bet or check flop ?

Either way, it comes back for 2 cold, action ? (You dont know this when you decide between checking or betting btw)

spydog · #2 06-16-2005, 06:54 AM

I'm probably 3-betting 77-TT in this spot, depending on my image. The more they respect me, the lower I will go.

If I call preflop, then I'm checkraising most flops. I will probably only lead/3-bet the flop with hands that aren't as vulnerable against overcards. I really want to get HU on the turn if possible and don't want to pay 2 bets without having the initiative. If I check and it's 2-back to me then I would fold. It's a drawless flop and I would need a pretty strong read of the donkbetting standards of the preflop limper before I get involved.

Stoli7 · #3 06-16-2005, 06:58 AM

lowest 3 bet 88+
I do 3 bet sometimes in this situation to get UTG limper and BB to fold.

I would check/fold flop in your situation.

wheelz · #4 06-16-2005, 07:21 AM

Don't really know what the lowest pair is, but I'm 3-betting preflop here. Also check-raising the flop. And folding when it's 2 back to you.

obithrawn · #5 06-16-2005, 09:10 AM

I like folding when its 2 cold to you.

You're unlikely to get it HU at that point, and even then you are not looking like you are ahead here.

droolie · #6 06-16-2005, 11:09 AM

I'm surprised so many of you like three betting here. Do we really think 77 will be good here against at least 2 opponents enough to play OOP the entire hand? Are we planning on betting the flop no matter what?

afk · #7 06-16-2005, 11:47 AM

I would have attemted to c/r CO on the flop, as there's a good chance we're ahead of him. If I check and it's two back to me I would have folded - but that's a spot where I want to see other opinions. Preflop, I think 88 is the lowest I'd feel 3betting, but I'm still getting a handle on shortand play.

obsidian · #8 06-16-2005, 12:05 PM

I also c/r this flop. However, if it comes 2 cold back to me I fold.

Trix · #9 06-17-2005, 12:41 PM

Checking and raising the buttons bet is clearly the line we would prefer as we will be ahead of an autobet very often and it will face the middle guy with 2 bets and thus protect our hand.
Most of you have said that, but the problem is that when the middle guy leads into button, which he SHOULD do with about any pair, button can raise pretty light and we are forced to fold as there is a good chance that we are behind one of them, or maybe this is where I go wrong ?

Leading doesn´t protect the hand aswell as check-raising (if the guy wont bet into the pfr with a pair), but it very likely will fold overcards to my sevens from the middle guy as he wont know if he is going to pay one, two or three bets to see the turn.

The key part though, is that if he would have bet into the pfr with any pair, then he may raise it into the pfr right there aswell, in which case pfr shouldn´t be that found of a hand like AK, so my fold will be alot more clear than it is if I check and it comes to me for two cold, that is if I have to fold if I check and it comes for two cold, which i´m not really that sure about, atleast if both are aggro.

3-betting preflop removes all this getting sandwiched between the two crap, either by having UTG fold or since you will have the lead, if CO caps, you are in same situation again though, but his range is slimmer, so folding for two would be more clear and the other guy should be less likely to raise into the guy who caps if you lead, he can still bet into him pretty light.

I would lead the flop with a set, so I also feel I should do it with other hands aswell and given that there is a good chance that it comes to me for two cold if I check, then this felt like a good spot to mix it up a bit.

I dont have pokerstove installed atm, as I lost my harddisk a couple of weeks ago, but I´ll try to get back to this later and do some sims as to whether you can 3bet or not if you check and it comes for two.
If it´s close, but you can´t, then leading may be the correct play here, as it shows more strenght, so depending how much you think it will lower the chance of coming back for two cold when ahead, it may make it right.

Alobar · #10 06-17-2005, 01:11 PM

my cutoff for the PF 3 bet is 99. Tho it depends, I will go lower under the right circumstances, but usually its 99

obviously I want to c/r the flop. When it comes back 2 cold on this board, I prolly just fold. There isnt a likely middle pair or draw for the retard to be donk betting, and obviously its entirely possible that the CO has us already beat.