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  #11  
Old 12-30-2005, 02:16 AM
Chipr777 Chipr777 is offline
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Default Re: was this handled correctly?

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If the floor is called he should be able to preserve the hand and would be correct to do so.


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I disagree. The rules of poker clearly state thats it's the players responsibility to protect his own hand. The hand in question was fouled. I'm all for doing everything possible in the best interest of the game but in this case it's cut and dry.
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  #12  
Old 12-30-2005, 03:05 AM
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Default Re: was this handled correctly?

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This sorta thing happened to me while playing at the MGM earlier this week.

Seat 1 is UTG and calls the BB (he put his chips over the little yellow line). Seat 2 is ordering a drink and pushes her cards into Seat 1's hand. The dealer rules both hands dead and tells Seat 1 that his money has to stay. He did tell him that if he had protected his hand with something, like a chip, his hand wouldn't have been dead as it was obvious who's cards were whos.

Seat 1 was pretty pissed and I told seat 2, my wife, to give the guy $2 as a "I'm sorry". It was her first time playing so she didn't realize what she had done and the guy in Seat 1 was a total moron so I figured it was in our best interest to keep him happy. The $2 sorry was good enough to get him to stick around and buy in again. Yay.

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Whether or not your wife gives Seat 2 the $2 should not depend upon your opinion of him. She should give him the $2 because it was completely her own bonehead mistake.

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Oh I agree, but he refused up and down to take the $2. I think he was embarrassed that he didn't have his cards protected and felt like a newb.
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  #13  
Old 12-30-2005, 03:32 AM
highlife highlife is offline
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Default Re: was this handled correctly?

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im pretty sure the hand should be dead.
somebody smarter than me will have to confirm this

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Wow. It was a pretty big pot. Someone would not have been happy with a decision to kill the hand.

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yeah but there is always at least one person who isnt happy after almost any floor decision needs to be made.
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  #14  
Old 12-30-2005, 04:36 AM
Randy_Refeld Randy_Refeld is offline
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Default Re: was this handled correctly?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the floor is called he should be able to preserve the hand and would be correct to do so.


[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree. The rules of poker clearly state thats it's the players responsibility to protect his own hand. The hand in question was fouled. I'm all for doing everything possible in the best interest of the game but in this case it's cut and dry.

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IT depends on how the hand is protected. When a player makes an effort to protect their hand they are entiteld to some protection if it becomes fouled. In this case his hand is fouled which makes it subject to being ruled dead.
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  #15  
Old 12-30-2005, 07:19 AM
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Default Re: was this handled correctly?

$2 is not bad for Fish Food.
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  #16  
Old 12-30-2005, 07:24 AM
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Default Re: was this handled correctly?

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Some will say the guy should have protected his hand better, but they're mostly the sort who'd say the same if an asteroid crashed through the roof of the cardroom onto their cards. "Oh, well, gotta protect your hand...never know when an asteroid's comin'..."


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Reasonable effort. Every reasonable effort should be taken. I don't need a gold ingot on my cards. I DO need a gold ingot, though!

I like the way it was handled. While I don't trust anyone 100%, it was done honorably. The guy told someone what he had, and they pulled the card. The player who received the unexpected "gift" did try to improve his hand, since he didn't give up the correct card on the first try. (Caught that?).
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  #17  
Old 12-30-2005, 01:26 PM
Al_Capone_Junior Al_Capone_Junior is offline
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Default Re: was this handled correctly? NO

Sorry, I missed the part where the floor was called. WHAM! RIGHT IN THE NUTS!

al
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  #18  
Old 12-30-2005, 01:44 PM
Al_Capone_Junior Al_Capone_Junior is offline
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Default Re: was this handled correctly?

Everyone should keep in mind tho that a "fouled" hand does not directly and absolutely equate to a "dead" hand (a misconception held by the vast majority of un-knowledgable players, dealers, and even floors). A fouled hand MAY be ruled dead.

I see no reason why the floor would summarily rule the hand dead here. If both the player who folded and the player who was still in could clearly identify their cards, the hand was salvageable. But not calling the floor to figure it out is inexcusable.

The responsibility of protecting one's hand does not extend to unreasonable means either. I mean what ARE you supposed to do, put a playover box on top of your hand every time, with a 50 Kg weight on top of it? This seems more like a freak accident than an obviously and blatantly unprotected hand.

al
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  #19  
Old 12-30-2005, 09:25 PM
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Default Re: was this handled correctly?

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Everyone should keep in mind tho that a "fouled" hand does not directly and absolutely equate to a "dead" hand (a misconception held by the vast majority of un-knowledgable players, dealers, and even floors). A fouled hand MAY be ruled dead.

I see no reason why the floor would summarily rule the hand dead here. If both the player who folded and the player who was still in could clearly identify their cards, the hand was salvageable. But not calling the floor to figure it out is inexcusable.


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Thank you. I was gonna add that. I've seen multiple times when a hand was not called dead just because another card touched it, protected or not. In one recent case, the 9 seat tossed her cards at the dealer and they landed just barely on the unprotected 10-seat's. It was absolutely clear which cards were which, and the dealer watched it the whole time. He gingerly took the cards off to muck 'em when a person not in the hand started shouting "that's a dead hand--kill that hand--kill that hand!" There's like $400 in the pot and the dealer says "I am NOT killing his hand over this" and the lady continues to shriek "call the floor! That's a dead hand!" Floor comes over, listens to the story, and says "no way I'm killing his hand--play on". Nobody else still in the hand is bent outta shape, 'cause it's crystal clear which cards were which, but the lady screaming for the hand to be killed continues to shriek about what a horrible ruling this is and ultimately she picks up her chips and leaves saying she refuses to play in such an unprofessional card room.

This is the same chick who earlier gave me a glare of death and a lecture about minding my own business and how "it's the dealer's job to call the hands--players are not allowed to call hands" when I pointed out that the guy with JJ hit a straight and beat her KK on the river a second before the dealer was about to push the $150 pot to the lady and her KK.

Yeah... don't let the door hit your fat rear on the way out, lady.
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