A previously "well-respected" MTT cheating team...

[MLG]

Matt, I have a great deal of respect for you and believe that you are not part of any "team" reagardless of the ehtics of participating in such a team. However, you should realize that your post might be construed as 1)admitting to the existence of such a team and 2)by insisting on an apology issueing condemnation on the legaility/ethics of such a team.

I've said before that I am truly torn as to the 1 player 1 hand rule online, and as such I do not condemn people who do not follow it, while at the same time I adhere to it. Thus, I'm not making the 2 assumptions listed above, but you should be aware of the fact that many people might.

[ecr72]

[ QUOTE ]
I am not part of this team. The original poster is spreading misinformation and owes me an apology.

Matt Matros

[/ QUOTE ]

While I did not mention your name in any 2+2 post, I did use the original poster's misinformation regarding you being part of this team over on RGP and I do apologize for doing so.

[jacksup]

The team exists--read Jerrod's post above.

I ask an apology for someone spreading misinformation about me. This would happen regardless of the content of the misinformation.

I said this on RGP, so I'll repeat it here (I probably should've said it in my initial post): I don't think what they're doing is against the rules, and I'm not even sure it's unethical. But I have never been part of the team, and part of the reason is I like to avoid ethically ambiguous situations.

Best,
Matt

[jacksup]

Apology accepted. Let's move on, eh?

Matt

[MLG]

I do not believe what you are doing is collusion. Part of the reason I belive this is that I think that as long time, and upstanding, members of an online poker community (granted a different one than the on I have made my contributions to) I believe you understand and are sensitive the real issues of collusion that are present in tournaments and that you stand to lose too much in relation to what you might gain by actively colluding.

That being said, however, I believe that the actions you are undertaking are irresponsible as many less educated players might perceive collusion (for good reason) even though none exists. As successful online players, and members of an online community I feel you (as well as me) have a responsibility to keep the game free of the perception of wrongdoing as the mere perception is more than enough to taint the game. In any situation in which cheatng is a prevalent issue, not only cheating, but the perception of cheating must be avoided. Thus, not only is betting on a game you are involved in prohibited in baseball, but all betting on any baseball game is highly punishable if you are a player/coach. In my opinion the problem is not that you are cheating (which you most likely aren't), but rather that if your actions were not prohibited it would make it much to easier for other less scrupulous players to cheat. That cannot be allowed.

[Jerrod Ankenman]

[ QUOTE ]
Jerrod

there are RGp'ers like myself that read your historical posts on a day to day basis... and I have had an e-mail from p phillips telling me to read your posts to understand poker.

our disapointment is that you might feel that it is OK to tag team during tournaments

you would not do this live.. so why would you feel it is ok just because it is on the internet?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's nice of Paul to say, and I appreciate it.

In brick and mortar poker rooms there is a "one player to a hand" rule. My position is that online poker is not brick and mortar poker. There are many things that players can do in online poker that they can't do online; for example, bring computer equity calculators such as Prock's PokerStove with them and use them during hands. Or create databases of hand histories and review their opponents' previous play with perfect recall and instantly. Neither of these things would be allowed in brick and mortar poker. The online sites have not made rules against these practices; on the contrary, many sites make available hand histories in a format that is IDEAL for mining this data.

Or players could create bots. At least PokerStars has rules against this; I haven't checked the other sites because I haven't written a bot. So that would be against the rules.

In the same way, none of the online cardrooms have made rules barring players from talking to each other about hands except when such activity constitutes collusion. So we don't see why it wouldn't be allowed.

Collusion, of course, is a different matter; it undermines the integrity of the game because each player is no longer playing to maximize his own equity; instead it is a team of players attempting to maximize their joint EV. The alliances formed by colluders are so powerful as to be in most cases unbeatable for the other players.

When we play, each individual seeks to maximize his own equity; when we are at the same table there is no discussion of hands because of the potential for collusive information to be shared. We sometimes play better (or sometimes worse, heh) because one of us has a different insight. But this doesn't undermine the game, because ultimately the team is only a single player who thinks more clearly than its opponents in most cases -- not a collusive alliance of players effecting an alliance-based strategy to extract value from alliance non-members.

Jerrod

[ekky]

Matt

I am making a plea on behalf of all of RGP

please can you come back and post more? I have read every post you ever made, via the archives.

We miss people like you and jerrod and Bill

[A_PLUS]

This probably happens so much, that it is ridiculous to condemn these guys for doing it. So in spirit of fairness. I would like to start a 2+2 team. Consisting of MLG, Gavin, Sossa, CSC, Fossilman, Jacksup, Sklansky, Mason, ummm, every other good player, and of course me.

I will be more of a 'spectator' than a player. But I am quite adept at finance, so I can invest our money for...uhhh how about 60% of the winnings?

[ekky]

its a question of ethics though.

Imagine when your book comes out.. (which I will read more fervently then any issue of playboy btw)

The newer players wont know who you are, but they will once your book comes out

they will research you, and find your blog.

Then they will think to themselves.. "wow.. this genius is tag-teaming... this is a great idea.. I will do this"

the problem now is that once they start tag-teaming.. they will then think "well.... if we can tag-team... we might as well share hole cards.. seeing as we are batting for the same side"

The thought of me playing on a table vs you and Bill is bad enough, but the potential mis-interpretation of your actions once your book is out, is ever more worrying.

I urge you to remove that comment from your blog, if only to save further (incorrectly deduced) problems such as "well.. Jerrod likes to tag team and cheat.. so i will as well"

[sloth469]

Internet poker has a short future (1 to 5 years max), enjoy it while it lasts.