Calling one in the BB with PP

An earlier broken post made me wonder about this general question:

Suppose I'm in the BB with a small PP (88 or lower). UTG raises and all fold to me. What is my play?

SSHe tight chart says to call, but I can't see why this is a rational play with a raiser in EP.

If he's raising on the SSHe tight table (for example) and I have 88, he's about 60-40 to win the hand. If he's a little more aggressive and is raising the SSHe tight table for players in MP, he's still about 58-42.

He has to be wildly aggressive preflop (raising like a rational player would on the button, or more) before your equity goes over 50%. So speaketh PokerStove. And that's when you're holding 88. It gets worse, of course, as you hold smaller PPs.

Am I missing something, or does this just show the weaknesses of trying to play poker from a printed chart?

[imported_The Vibesman]

There's a general statement in SSHE about the money coming from players who go too far with their hands. Perhaps this is connected to that?

It's funny, I have no default play for this situation, I really like to mix it up here. I think it's a great situation to be in, really.

[Songwind]

I think it's read dependent - does UTG raise with sensible hands? SSHE is written for crushing loose fishy games. It assumes you aren't playing against a bunch of TAGs.

Also, charts are not meant to replace the text. What does SSHE say about medium and small pocket pairs? I believe the advice is that we want to play them in multiway pots because when they hit their set we see a big pot slide our way and we can get away from them easily if we miss. So with noone in the pot but the PFR we have to change our tactic.

[@bsolute_luck]

the difficulty with this obviously comes postflop and the reason is: you should be c/r a good bit of flops even if you don't hit your set.

Agree about more players. If you got some cold-callers after UTG's raise it would change things completely. Also if the raiser was on your left (blind steal).

This is an unusual situation, HU with an EP player. I don't see the harm in folding this at a typical loose table.

Yes, here we get into the mechanics of HU play which I'm not good at (yet) (like many beginners). May be another good reason to fold preflop if one is honest about their own skills.

[imported_The Vibesman]

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Yes, here we get into the mechanics of HU play which I'm not good at (yet) (like many beginners). May be another good reason to fold preflop if one is honest about their own skills.

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True. But you'll have to start playing in these situations at some point if you want to maximize your winnings. Pocket pairs can be pretty strong heads up if they survive the flop.

I have been known to fold some lower pairs out of the BB when heads up against a particularly tight EP raiser, usually 22-55 or thereabouts. But I generally like to play in these situations. It helps to know your opponents postflop tendencies, if I have a good read I'm a lot more likely to play even the lower pairs.

As Absolute Luck said, you've also got to mix up your play, and should be playing aggressively sometimes when you don't hit your set as well as when you do. Ragged boards are obviously good for these.

Go through your history and find some hands that may have bothered you in this situation and post em up.

I'm not saying just to jump in, but you're probably passing up on some profitable situations if you fold 77 or 88 out of the BB heads up every time it is raised in EP.

[Buckmulligan]

I think I usually like a call preflop and a checkraise on the flop;

[Hellmouth]

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I think I usually like a call preflop and a checkraise on the flop;

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I would say this is correct as long as no high cards hit on the flop. (A-Q)

To the OP: I like calling for one in the BB because you are already getting 3:1 to call with implied odds. If you only win 50% of the time and you are getting 75% on your call it is a good one. This is pretty much the exact situation you are in with a middle pocket pair against two over cards.

Many players will raise UTG with AK-AJ if they are good and AK-A5 if they are terrible. Other raises are KQ, and big cards ten or better. I like the line of a check raise on the flop if no big cards hit. That way you can either get a free card on the turn and see all the cards to the river or you can bully the pot on the turn if no big cards hit.

I tend to play the lower pp's a little weakly. If I start to sense aggression back then I usually try to get out as quick as possible. But a good deal of the time you will be on 77 against A6 who hit his 6 on the flop etc if the players are bad.

Of course this all changes if it is a TAG raising under the gun. Then I would probably elect to fold.

Greg

[Buckmulligan]

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I would say this is correct as long as no high cards hit on the flop. (A-Q)



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This really doesn't make a difference. When higher cards come, IE AQ6 flop, our checkraise now has folding equity versus some better hands, and value versus hands like KJs. Although obviously on a board like this we muck to a 3 bet.