KQo- Ace on turn, c/c or c/f on river?

smokylosecannon · #1 10-07-2005, 01:13 PM

No read on villians since total hands I have on them is less than 15. Comments on turn and river play is welcome.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, CO calls, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, CO calls, Button calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds.

Turn: (7.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, CO calls, Button calls, UTG+1 calls.

Fire again to see where I am. Both of them says they have Ace.

River: (11.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, CO checks, Button bets, UTG+1 folds, Hero?

check and Button bets to me. I am getting 12.75:1. What your river play? Trust the information I got on turn so fold or call due to pot odds? I still have CO behind of me to act.

#2 10-07-2005, 01:17 PM

I thought you played the hand very well, you must bet the turn in case your hand is still good. On the river, you should call as your hand will be good enough times given the pot odds.

ghostwriter · #3 10-07-2005, 01:18 PM

You didn't get any information on the turn. They both called but utg-1 folded on the river so he obviously didn't have an ace. Who knows what the other guy has? Who cares? You'll find out when you call which you should every time.

Buckmulligan · #4 10-07-2005, 01:31 PM

I bet the end, especially because I expect a couple callers, and I'm pretty certain we have better than 33% equity. I probably fold to a raise.

Mister Z · #5 10-07-2005, 04:08 PM

The calls on the turn do not say your opponents have an ace. It says they are not very good at poker. Raise the river.

Fat Nicky · #6 10-07-2005, 04:44 PM

Betting the turn is easy. Getting 3 callers is no fun, but it also doesn't convince me that any one of them has an Ace.

They could just as easily have a weaker K, a 10 w/a straigt draw, or a small pocket pair.

You have to call the river, the pot is big, and there is no way you can be convinced that you're beat

ZenMusician · #7 10-07-2005, 05:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

*vomits*

call

-ZEN

W. Deranged · #8 10-07-2005, 06:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The calls on the turn do not say your opponents have an ace. It says they are not very good at poker. Raise the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is nuts.

Carmine · #9 10-07-2005, 08:54 PM

I was good on this river......Once. I think it was a Thursday. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

#10 10-07-2005, 09:10 PM

Bet the turn, yes. Betting the river is the standard play, as well as folding to a raise, but the pot is so big that you should probably call the raise because it is likely you might catch a bluff raise from someone representing the 4s. This depends on where the raise comes from. If it comes from the last person to act, after everyone has folded to your bet, then call, since a bluff is more likely. If everyone has called already, and then someone raises, then just puke and fold: someone out there is not bluffing.

Does anyone else agree with this?

You might be tempted to try a check-call here b/c it is likely you can get someone to bluff with nothing and get a few callers along for value. The problem is, no one has shown aggression until the board paired, so most are likely on busted draws or seeing a weak T or K to the river or even another small pair. These people will call your bet but not bet for you. You will get calls from second best hands more often than you will get raised by a better hand here. Don't be surprised at a 4 or A, but bet every time and you'll come out ahead.

I should also note that by checking the river you are inducing a bluff, in which case you *must* call every time (unless someone raises before it gets to you).