SNG Ladder Challenge (SLC) - Updates

[JayCo]

SNG Ladder Challenge (SLC) Intro

On the off-chance anyone else is interested or is going to try this, I'll post updates here. Actually, even if nobody is interested, I'll be posting results anyway since I think I'll hold myself more accountable that way. (I have some tilting through bankroll issues to work on.)

Summary:
After a rocky start, but only taking 11 SNGs to raise my roll from a starting $30 (5 buy-ins at the $5+$1 rung) up to the $55 minimum to step up to the $10+$1s, happy happy times were had.

Back-to-back miracles on the bubble in 2 $10+$1s led to 2 W's and put me over the 5 buy-ins for the $20+$2s. 2 $20s later a 1st place and I'm on to the $30 rung. (Can't post any hands since Party HHs not appearing.)

Hope I haven't wasted all this luck on the lower levels, I'll need it more when I go swimming in the deep end. I was running so damn good, I made $ with the ultimate hand o' death in NL AJo.


SNG Finishes: 53% ITM, 58% ROI, Avg=4.0

START at $5 rung
1) $30, $5+$1, 10 -> $24
2) $24, $5+$1, 8 -> $18
3) $18, $5+$1, 3 -> $22
4) $22, $5+$1, 1 -> $41
5) $41, $5+$1, 2 -> $50
6) $50, $5+$1, 6 -> $44
7) $44, $5+$1, 9 -> $38
8) $38, $5+$1, 2 -> $47
9) $47, $5+$1, 4 -> $41
10) $41, $5+$1, 2 -> $50
11) $50, $5+$1, 2 -> $59

UP to $10 rung
12) $59, $10+$1, 1 -> $98
13) $98, $10+$1, 1 -> $137

UP to $20 rung
14) $137, $20+$2, 6 -> $115
15) $115, $20+$2, 1 -> $193

UP to $30 rung
16) $193, $30+$3, 6 -> $160

DOWN to $20 rung
17) $160, $20+$2, ?

[Jurollo]

No offense, but you realize while you might get some decent play out of this, you will ultimately lose this money. I would say the ROR on something like this is high 90%s. Way too much variance in poker to handle 5 buyins.

[JayCo]

[ QUOTE ]
No offense, but you realize while you might get some decent play out of this, you will ultimately lose this money. I would say the ROR on something like this is high 90%s. Way too much variance in poker to handle 5 buyins.

[/ QUOTE ]

No offense taken. The only reaction on this board has been to warn me off and/or gently suggest I'm crazy, so you have company [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. But I do respectfully disagree.

2 thoughts:

1) Bear in mind whenever I go below 5 buy-ins, I'll be dropping down a level. So effectively I'll have significantly more than 5 buyins. For example, I'm at $160 now. To bust now I'd effectively have to finish out of the money in 15 consecutive tournaments ($160 -$22x3$=94, -$11x4=$50, -$6x8=$2). Is this very possible? Of course. Is the probability >95%? No.

2) Let's compromise and say my ROR is actually 90% and not in the "high 90s". So I have a 90% chance of busting, and a 10% of reaching my current goal of $1,000. EV = 90% x $-30 + 10% x +$970 = +$70. If you can humor me and play along that my ROR is actually 60% - 80%, then my EV jumps to $170 to $370.

Yes, yes, I know, it would safer, easier, and generally more sane to try to clear $70 or even $370 by playing in $10-$30 SNGs with a 25-30% ROI. I would also be willing to bet that even at the lower RORs, doing the SLC will not maximize my EV. But it is a great diversion from the poker routine. Plus I might learn something.


The Side Wager:

So if I actually make it to the $200 buy-in level, I have a proposed wager. To show it wasn't a fluke, I'll offer to back a solid SNG player on 2+2 that will agree to give it a shot (Lori would be my pick). If they agree, I'll put up the starting $30 in return for a small piece of the action.

If someone we agree on is interested will try it, our bet would be on whether they make it to the $200 level on the first try. If they do, then you'd agree to reimburse me the $30. If not, I'll sponsor you $30 so you can give it a shot if you want.

Edit: Of course, I'm just feeling cocky because I'm back onto the $30 rung
17 SNGs: 56% ITM, 111% ROI, Avg=3.8
DOWN to $20 rung:
17) $160, $20+$2, 1 -> $238
UP to $30 rung:
18) $238, $30+$, ?

[Peter Harris]

Looks good. you seem to be on a hot streak, but i'm rooting for you.

I'd love to do this, but i am currently a total LAG. My SNGs recently have been blown apart by bad play so i'm taking a week off.

Your challenge looks like fun, and it's well thought out. I may dabble in it over the next few months and PM you/post it.

Be sure to keep me informed!

Regards,
Pete Harris

[JayCo]

[ QUOTE ]
Looks good. you seem to be on a hot streak, but i'm rooting for you.

I'd love to do this, but i am currently a total LAG. My SNGs recently have been blown apart by bad play so i'm taking a week off.

Your challenge looks like fun, and it's well thought out. I may dabble in it over the next few months and PM you/post it.

Be sure to keep me informed!

Regards,
Pete Harris

[/ QUOTE ]


Thanks for the good wishes- as someone with a career 15% SNG ROI, I have been on a major SNG rush. As a recovering SNG LAG myself, I found this guide to be amazingly helpful:
Link to "Beating the Party $10+$1 Guidelines"

The ideas / strategy I more or less had a half-decent grasp on. I printed it out, taped it to the side of my laptop, looked at it as anti-tilt device. I needed outside help to fight my overwhelming LAGgy urges to overplay hands like 99-JJ and AJ-AQ and/or try to steal pots in the early levels.

I'm actually using the SLC as anti-tilt/anti-LAG therapy, having blown off 1/2 of my Party win for the year, I thought limiting my downside and giving myself a clear goal to focus on might help my play. (Catching an epic run of bubble miracles and HU monster suckouts helps, too).

Pls post your results if you do try it- I'm curious to see how people make out with this thing. Group consensus seems to be it's a suicide run [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

J

[spacemonkey57]

I've been languishing at the 5+.50s at UB for a few months now. My ROI is around 30%, but I've gotten hammered every time I've tried to go up to the 10+1 level. It bothers me because I can handle the 10+1 level at Party and Pokerroom. I'm going to give this a shot, but I want to start with 10 buy ins instead of 5. I also only play about two of these a day, so it's going to be slow going.

[JayCo]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been languishing at the 5+.50s at UB for a few months now. My ROI is around 30%, but I've gotten hammered every time I've tried to go up to the 10+1 level. It bothers me because I can handle the 10+1 level at Party and Pokerroom. I'm going to give this a shot, but I want to start with 10 buy ins instead of 5. I also only play about two of these a day, so it's going to be slow going.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cool- hope you do well. I was planning on going much slower, but it's been going so well I've been itching to play to get to the next rung.

As far as beating Party/Pokerroom $10s but getting beat up at UB, I haven't played a UB SNG, but I do have some unsolicited advice:
"Doc, I hurts every time I stick my finger in my ear like this. What do I do?"
"Stop sticking your finger in your ear"
(i.e., maybe stick to Party SNGs?)

Best of luck and keep us posted on your results. I think posting my scary 1st 2 SNG results publicly (10th and 8th) was what turned my karma around.

[spacemonkey57]

Not off to a great start. One fourth and one third. I had a huge chip lead with four left in the third, but lost on a coinflip with nines and had trouble stealing blinds.

The only reason I keep money at UB is that I can play there at work and I like to play on my lunch hour. I can't connect to any other sites.

[BradleyT]

I kind of cheated. Took my $30 and got up to $52 playing $5's - just shy of the $10 SnG mark. Then I played 4 at once and lost all 4. And then lost another 3 in a row.

Here's where I cheated. When I was down to $17 I played one $10 and one $5. Sort of a all or nothing type deal. Well I placed in both of them so I'm back up to $42. I'll start keeping more accurate stats this week.

Edit-
And for those saying the ROR is too high, not enough bankroll, etc. This is in the spirit of the OIC. In that you took $50 (actually the gaming club gave us $50 free for it) and started at $.50/$1.00 and saw how high you could build it up by moving up a level every $XX. A few people cleared the $2,000 mark (the goal), I think I made it to like $120 and then hit a slight slump and cashed everything out after I hit a $320 score in a freeroll.

[StickyWicket]

I'm currently "laddering" at UB sng's...Started with the 10's, and I find them to be quite beatable - I'm either out fast or in the money. Just moved up to $20's after starting with $100 and hitting $300. The players at the $10 are highly unpredictable (still finding some of that in the $20, dear lord...), and I suggest keeping tedious notes on every player you play with---it's amazing how after a week of sng's I can tell who's mini-betting with what and what it means when a player bets out however much on the flop [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]..at this level, players are calling early raises with anything - tread lightly, play a good game, and know that with consistent, selectively-aggressive play, you're moving up to the $20's in no time. [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

You want scary and a low ROI, head over to Pacific, where---if you can stay connected during your entire SNG, you can be re-raised by 9-2 os against your AK consistently and have 3 all-ins within the first 4 hands...the party never stops! They pay 3 places, (3rd-10, 2nd-15, and 1st-25) for a $10 buyin...hateful...