Interesting Hand from WPT Aruba

[B Dids]

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If he's definitley loose-passive, isn't that the kind of player you expect to call a big all-in raise?

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Good god, with AJo? I would say 99% hell no.

I think Justin was just wrong on the read of him being a total [censored] retard.

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It's just this specific flavor of retard, that can play very passive and bad, but still make a call like this. It's something that I would expect based on his description of a ll online qualifier.

That said, given his reads, and you can't really begrudge somebody their reads, this seems like a fine play.

[DeadMoneyOC]

Did anyone even consider the possibility that maybe he could fold his J9?

[drewjustdrew]

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next time I call the 4th raise all in preflop w/ AJ will be the first.

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I'm sure I have done it when either :
a. I was extremely short stacked
b. I was a monster stack against 3 short stacks.

a. much more likely than b.

[KramerTM]

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Did anyone even consider the possibility that maybe he could fold his J9?

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I love this move.

[gergery]

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next time I call the 4th raise all in preflop w/ AJ will be the first. he called raises three times w/ AJo. he's a donkey.

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Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder

I don’t mean any disrespect to ZJ, but how can you say that calling an all in with AJ is any more a donkey play than pushing all-in with J9s, particularly since most posters here could correctly identify that the AJo wasn’t beat by ZJ’s hand?

ZJ made a fine play. Work out the math and he needs maybe a 35% chance they all fold to make his jam correct. Ok, he judged wrong, bad luck.

But the other guy only needs ZJ to have AA-JJ/AK-AQ less than maybe 30% of the time for his play to be correct. You can’t tell me one decision here was so different than the other in terms of quality. Can you?

[Your Mom]

ZeeJ has never made a bad play in his life. Read his site - he always plays good and only loses when the cards don't go his way. No offense, but the guy who called you made either a poor decision or totally read you right. Either way, your play is not good.

[sirio11]

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he called raises three times w/ AJo. he's a donkey.

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1st raise: He called a raise with AJ, that may be a bad play (as calling a raise with J9) but hardly a donkey play.

2nd raise: All the table saw the 2nd raise has no meaning at all, and the original raiser folded !!, why is this a donkey play?

3rd and 4th raise: So, if MP3 decides to call with AJ, he made a great read on ZJ, but if MP1 calls, he's a donkey?. Why is impossible for MP1 to put MP3 and ZJ in their most possible holdings and read their intentions?.

This remember me of Annie Duke and the play with KQ called by "an amateur" with AQ. She then go on to berate the amateur because of his donkish play. For some pros an amateur should fold every time they make their "great plays" in order to deserve not to be called a donkey.

[WillMagic]

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My overall analysis of this play:
My read on how willing MP1 was to put his tournament life at stake was clearly off.
Given my reads however (that were otherwise correct), I think this play has a significant positive chip equity.
Despite that, there is just too much risk of me going broke during this hand, and I should have given up this edge to avoid missing out on bigger edges later on.

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Don't turn into Hellmuth on us. You made the right play and you were crippled. It stings...but you know damn well there is no way you should be passing on situations with significant positive chip equity this early in a tournament. Replace "significant" with "minimal" and you might have an argument for folding.

Will

[SossMan]

David,
You can't be serious...

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1st raise: He called a raise with AJ, that may be a bad play (as calling a raise with J9) but hardly a donkey play.


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He was the first cold caller. He still had players left to act behind him. He has a hand that doesn't play well deep stacked with the potential to be OOP in a multihanded pot. Ugh.
ZJ, on the other hand, has
A)position
B)a hand that can make a big hand
C)much better idea of where he stood in the hand
D)another coldcaller inbetween
E)an image that would allow him to represent a made hand in a big pot.

His first call is probably pretty bad, but it was the best call of the three.

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2nd raise: All the table saw the 2nd raise has no meaning at all, and the original raiser folded !!, why is this a donkey play?


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He saw that it was an accidental raise. If it was so obvious that MP3 and ZJ were putting on a move (after they both raised), then he should have taken the lead and gone ahead and made the raise himself. This would have been infinately better than calling all in from a big raise w/ a hand that doesn't figure to be good very often given the action.

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3rd and 4th raise: So, if MP3 decides to call with AJ, he made a great read on ZJ, but if MP1 calls, he's a donkey?. Why is impossible for MP1 to put MP3 and ZJ in their most possible holdings and read their intentions?.



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MP3 was getting 1.8:1. MP1 was getting 1.45 or so and, more importantly, HE WASN'T CLOSING THE ACTION! His call would give MP3 3:1. How is AJ looking now?
If you can't see the difference between MP3's potential call and MP1's, then I don't know what to say.

The entire line stinks. Anyone who says that he made a great read are severely underestimating (as ZJ did) the chances that he probably would have made an initial all in call if the first raiser openpushed because he has a 'monster'.

[sirio11]

I understand Andrew the difference in the 1st raise between MP1 and ZJ, I just don't consider J9s a great hand in this spot, unless you're thinking in all those times the flop comes T87 or JJ9; and that you'll play perfectly all the times the flop comes 9 high; J high; JT9 (vs KQ,JT,87s); JJx (vs AJ,KJ,QJ, JT)or with a flush draw (vs probably a higher flush draw). And ZJ is not closing the action also PF. But agreed, calling with AJ in his position is a bad play.

I didn't understand your analisis of the 2nd raise, I'm not sure raising in his spot is a better play; but I'm sure calling here with all these conditions may be debatable, but hardly donkish.


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MP3 was getting 1.8:1. MP1 was getting 1.45 or so and, more importantly, HE WASN'T CLOSING THE ACTION! His call would give MP3 3:1. How is AJ looking now?

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All this analisis is completely irrelevant if he does have a read on both MP3 and ZJ. He could have seen MP3 reaction to ZJ's raise all in, and maybe something in ZJs demeanor.