An Incredibly Mundane Question About Cold-Calling

W. Deranged · #1 08-31-2005, 06:44 PM

Okay,

So I don't like pre-flop questions, but:

You have Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in MP1 at a full table.

The player behind you is an uber-fish and quite laggy: 52/18/1.75.

A tight-agg. pre-flop/passive post-flop (read-tight weak ABC Lame-O; 15/12/1.4) open raises in UTG+1.

It's one fold to you and you call.

Cool?

I figured a cold-call here was fine because the player behind me was so likely to join the party. Oh yeah, and because I could count on the raiser to play his hand to weakly and allow me to have my way with him if I flopped a draw (which is what happened in the hand in question [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]).

This situation came up in a hand I played on Party and the UTG Lame-O started berating me for cold-calling with QJ. Another tight-passive Lame-O joined the flame-fest.

By the way, if any of you are said tight-passive Lame-Os, I apologize, while simultaneously encouraging you to: 1) play more hands; 2) not be tight-weak.

akishore · #2 08-31-2005, 06:46 PM

Yeah, it's cool, as long as you're confident the pot will be around five-way on the flop, preferably more.

But, I would heavily suggest that you change seats next time. Easy money on your right, remember that.

This would be a much clearer cold-call if one or two or more cold-called ahead of you. It always sucks to be on the raiser's direct left.

Still, it's not bad.

Aseem

W. Deranged · #3 08-31-2005, 06:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, it's cool, as long as you're confident the pot will be around five-way on the flop, preferably more.

But, I would heavily suggest that you change seats next time. Easy money on your right, remember that.

This would be a much clearer cold-call if one or two or more cold-called ahead of you. It always sucks to be on the raiser's direct left.

Still, it's not bad.

Aseem

[/ QUOTE ]

A couple of things:

1. Yeah, I should've changed seats.

2. Do you live in Cambridge full-time or do you go to school there? Whichever the answer is, we should talk about getting together a Cambridge 2+2 game/magoo/Foxwoods trip.

sy_or_bust · #4 08-31-2005, 07:01 PM

You'll run into a lot of problems if fishy UTG likes to lead into a lot of flops, and it sounds like he might. Otherwise it shouldn't be too bad if you have a good perception of the table and expect that some of the players behind you (incl. blinds) are loose enough to call with a fair range of hands.

W. Deranged · #5 08-31-2005, 07:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You'll run into a lot of problems if fishy UTG likes to lead into a lot of flops, and it sounds like he might. Otherwise it shouldn't be too bad if you have a good perception of the table and expect that some of the players behind you (incl. blinds) are loose enough to call with a fair range of hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fish is MP2, not UTG. Tight-weaky is UTG+1.

callmedonnie · #6 08-31-2005, 07:05 PM

This is something I usually avoid especially OOP. I really never call in this spot, but if you have enough faith you get action behind you not involving a raise, sweet. With the right circumstances I think it works and you seem to have identified the right moment.

Weak UTG+1 flamed you because you took advantage of him, as you should. These types of players think playing the right starting hands is all it takes, and are pissed when their strong hands get sucked out on fail them. I think every good table has one or two of these types.

nh.

sy_or_bust · #7 08-31-2005, 07:06 PM

Ah. The call looks OK, but it shouldn't break the bank either way. Sometimes LAG 3-bets behind you and you end up 3-handed, which sucks, but that should balance out for those times LAG + other(s) tag along for 2. If the PFR were tighter I'd probably just fold.

DeuceKicker · #8 08-31-2005, 08:11 PM

As a general rule I think this is a fold unless you've already got cold-callers in front of you. Your read on two of your opponents shades it more toward a call* but not enough, IMO.

You're liable to be playing this hand against only two--maybe three (but possibly only one)--others, out of position, and you'll be very often dominated. Let's say a Q flops and you raise weak-tighty. He'll often just check-call you down with KQ or AQ; not folding, but doing nothing to let you know you're beat, either.

*If you're going to take advantage of weak-tightie's weak-tightness, what about 3-betting? Blow everyone else away and try to take it away with a nice (low) flop.

hobbsmann · #9 08-31-2005, 08:23 PM

QJ [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is just too pretty to fold. Seriously though, I think this cc is fine, and if anything breakeven, due to pfr'er being weak-tight and thus bad postflop and you having a loosie behind you. Also, with 3 already most people will call with a wide range in the BB.

flair1239 · #10 09-01-2005, 12:24 AM

I would be worried about the LAGGY guy making it three bets. Also a guy who plays 52% of his hands with a 1.75 AGG rating, is pretty damn aggressive.

There is the risk of some level of domination from the original raiser, and the risk of the LAG behind you making it expensive for you to draw.

If the 52% guy was also passive I would have less of an issue with the cold call. As it is, I think you have really bad relative position, and the hand has the potential to get very expensive.