flopped trips - any escape from the donk?

[ThrillFactor]

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you reraise preflop? 9s ain´t strong enough to minreraise pf.
If you try and keep the pot smaller by calling instead of reraising preflop, you will be able to get away from losing your whole stack.
About the push, he made a bad call and you should be happy about that call - at that point you were ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]


The preflop min-raise is indeed terrible, but if there is even a glimmer of a thought in your mind that he should for some reason consider getting away from his hand on this flop in a $20MTT, then you probably shouldn't be giving advise.

No offense.

Thanks. Good of you to respond.
Apart from the obvious frustration, the main reason I popsted the hand was to answer two questions about MTTs. I do quite well on WH cash games and have won a few tournies so I can't complain about the players on WH. I'm no poker god so if I can turn a profit, then it suits me. I got battered on poker star...
Anyway, the questions this raises are:
1. Playing medium pairs. The consensus here is check or fold pre-flop early doors, which I've taken on board. I was sensitive to the weak raise having busted out to AA twice already last nigth when called/min-raised UTG. On both occasions I checked JJ/QQ (suspecting aces)and then made a move when the flop was also checked so I was keen to find out where I stood in this case. However, 99 isn't a hand to fall in love with so it was unecessary - I wouldn't be moving a lot of chips in unless it improved.
2. Protecting hands. In a similar situation in a cash game, you protect the nut hand which is vulnerable to two draws, you fire big bets to make the draw expensive and, anyway, you can hope that the board pairs at the same time as completing their draw. I've had my fingers burned with this strategy in MTTs and I wonder what the plan is (assuming you've called the mini-raise and flopped the nuts)?

[emptypockets]

I wrote "get away from losing your whole stack", as you kindly put in bold, that is not the same, is it?

And Thrillfactor, I took offense so please be a little more polite in you´re replies.

[ThrillFactor]

Sorry, but the way your original post reads is that without the preflop reraise, the pot would be smaller on the flop, thus giving hero a better chance to NOT get it all in the middle against an opponent who wants to chase a draw?

Granted, there's always the chance that your donk opponent may have played whatever gappers is takes to flop the straight, but even then you have your draws.

I guess my point was that in this particular post about this particular hand, "getting away from risking your whole stack" shouldn't even be mentioned.

But maybe I'm being a donk about this somehow.

I always fold a set on the flop if there is a possible flush or str8 draw. You have to preserve your tournament life and it's just not worth the gamble. Wait for a better spot.

[ThrillFactor]

[ QUOTE ]
I always fold a set on the flop if there is a possible flush or str8 draw. You have to preserve your tournament life and it's just not worth the gamble. Wait for a better spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

hateful...

sure hope my sarcasm detector is working here

on second thought, i fold here too.

We always blame losses on donks, but, was he really a donk, or did he think YOU were? I don't mean this as an insult. Let me re-play this hand as villain and see if maybe there is another interpretation.....Please bear in mind that I am not advocating or critizing any play here, I will just "walk a mile" in villain's shoes

1) I look at my cards and see A-7o, not great, but not horrible at a table that had (quote) no significant action yet (end quote. It's still early, I decide to semi-bluff and open small.... minraise
2) The bet comes around to you, you go 6X BB, the high end of normal, but this early, I don't know if that means anything for your playing style. I just file it away for future reference and assume you are not too keen on seeing action.
3)The BB calls. OK, he probably has something, but unless he has AA KK he is not going to re-raise 6X with a live player (me) coming up. He is sandwiched and can't do much until I speak.
4) You may have a killer, you may have mid-strength. Here, I show you a little respect. A true donk would go all-in with JJ or better The BB does not have KK AA or probably any of the higher pairs.So far I would put him at Kx min 9 or Ax min 6 maybe even less. You on the other hand I put at being somewhat stronger, mid-pairs (strong enough to play, but you'd be happy just taking the blinds)or a couple of high cards. I'm a little bored with the lack of action, and A7 is the best hand I've had in a while,but, if BB does have a strong hand, I don't want to give him another chance to bet (i'm NOT saying that this move is right, I'm just re-playing a possible scenario) OK CALL

FLOP

1) BB raises 1/3 the pot to 720. Pretty standard. I take it he made a pair and has a high kicker. All I need to know for now.
2) You go all-in bringing the pot to 1920, 1220 to me (I hope I got the math right LOL) Your play makes some sense. With a straight draw on the board, you don't want to slow play your trips, but, if UTG will fold based on pot odds, he should fold to a bet of about 3/4 the pot, say 500.

3) OK I'm Villain again... I see my straight draw sitting in front of me, plus I have an A. No big cards on the table, so maybe I think my A would be good. I count 8 outs for the straight and add 3 for the A's (Ya, OK, that's wrong, but let's just play it through). Now I have 11 outs which puts me at 1.4:1 against, 42% to win. HMMMM, not enough.... BUT... (again, not insulting you, just running through villain's thoughts)...this &#&$ing Donkey has tried to chase me off TWICE!!!! He (you) overbet fiercely pre-flop and again now!!! Why does he want to avoid action so badly? Well %&#& him ! If he wants to avoid action, then, BY GOD, I WILL GIVE HIM SOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CALL !!!!!!

And there you have it. Going back to the beginning of this post where villlain had you pegged as possible mid-pairs, the flop was a near certainty of trips. So villain was somewhat donkeyish, but maybe he didn't really care if his pot odds calc showed a near coin-flip.

I really can't fault you for the pre-flop 6X since it is on the high side of "normal" and I have no idea how you guys were raising before that point. I do, however consider your all-in to be in error. You DID NOT have the nuts when a straight draw was sitting there. You risked 720 that you didn't need to risk, but again, that was a judgement call. Oh well... hindsight is always 20/20.

Cheers

lol, can't believe i just read the whole thing.

Brilliant response. Thank you.

The issue isn't whether to fold but how hard to bet.