ESPN advice for Poker Players

mmanne · #1 07-06-2004, 01:50 PM

In the most recent Jackpot Jay column (about a guy attempting to be a pro and write about it), this is the advice given:
[ QUOTE ]
if you are a true beginner, I'd recommend "How to Play Poker Like the Pros," by Phil Hellmuth. It's accessible enough for a newcomer without any talking down, and the writing style is entertaining. (As soon as you become more accomplished at the game, make sure to read Doyle Brunson's "Super System." Since it was written more than 25 years ago, it's a bit outdated, theory-wise, but it's still the bible on the most important attribute any poker player could ever hope to develop -- aggressiveness.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Man, I can't wait to get on the tables

nolanfan34 · #2 07-06-2004, 02:53 PM

Damn, I was just about to post this. I just about fell out of my chair laughing when I read this. Especially since I remember reading that most people who read Hellmuth's book seemed to feel that he DOES have a condesending tone in the book.

At this point, I'm having a hard time believing that Jackpot Jay is really up $6,500 for the year. Seems like he only writes about bad beat stories.

Alobar · #3 07-06-2004, 02:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Damn, I was just about to post this. I just about fell out of my chair laughing when I read this. Especially since I remember reading that most people who read Hellmuth's book seemed to feel that he DOES have a condesending tone in the book.

At this point, I'm having a hard time believing that Jackpot Jay is really up $6,500 for the year. Seems like he only writes about bad beat stories.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wasnt he down alot before he played at foxwoods. I've never been but from what I've read here even a idiot could make money at foxwoods

Syntax · #4 07-06-2004, 03:26 PM

I havent read the article, and I am well aware of the flaws in Hellmuth' book. However anytime you give advice to a fish about reading books and how much it will improve their game, even Hellmuth's book, that's not something the better and studious players should be excited about. Despite the numerous problems with Hellmuth's strategy, it teaches players a very important concept in tight, selective and aggressive play. This will make the easy fish become tougher fish. Were not talking about taking expert players and then advising them to play a weaker system. Any clueless player that starts to "Play Poker Like the Pros" will not become an easier target. Also, if they realize that the book has helped them, they might start getting into the better books. Reading Hellmuths book is not going to turn a fish into a worse fish, but if it gets even one fish on the path to becoming a shark, that shouldn't be good news.

I know you were mostly joking, I just wanted to point that out. Now back to your regularly shceduled Hellmuth bashing.

bwana devil · #5 07-06-2004, 04:03 PM

Phil’s book was the second poker book I read. My game was already bad and got so much worse will reading it. I was just starting to play poker and was already a losing player but once I read the book I was losing money at an astounding rate. I learned on my own that the book stunk and tried to erase the “lessons” I had read. Fortunately I found the 2+2 boards next and got my required reading out of the way. I thought about posting in the books section that I wanted to trade the book but would feel guilty trading that for anything of substance.

bwana

PITTM · #6 07-06-2004, 04:06 PM

i think his point was more that, just reading hellmuths book will not do nearly enough for preparation for a new player, unless his goal is to lose money.

rj

mmanne · #7 07-06-2004, 04:10 PM

I don't know I really think the advice for Limit Poker is horrible in Phil's book. I find that it's wrong and the logic behind it is very wrong as well. Plus, a lot of the time it doesn't distinguish limit from no-limit clearly. I like people thinking that they know what they are doing and sitting at a higher limit table than they should be, just because they read a "great" instructional book.

I understand your point that any knowledge will help, but really, I think you underestimate the ego boost from a little knowledge and what that does to a poker player's game.

Plus, Jackpot Jay has really impressed me as a bad writer, and a bad poker player, so this kind of confirmed it to me.

matt

Syntax · #8 07-06-2004, 04:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I was just starting to play poker and was already a losing player but once I read the book I was losing money at an astounding rate.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way did you only play Phil's top ten hands and started to lose money at an even faster rate. I don't believe it for one second.

Alobar · #9 07-06-2004, 04:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I was just starting to play poker and was already a losing player but once I read the book I was losing money at an astounding rate.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way did you only play Phil's top ten hands and started to lose money at an even faster rate. I don't believe it for one second.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you only play his top 10 hands, you arnt in enough hands to stay ahead of the blinds. Then if you are capping 77 everytime you get it, you prolyl arnt even breaking even on the 10 hands you play

bwana devil · #10 07-06-2004, 04:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]

No way did you only play Phil's top ten hands and started to lose money at an even faster rate. I don't believe it for one second.

[/ QUOTE ]

way. one line that got me in trouble from the book was something like: "And what happens when you're first to act and the flop misses you? You bet it like it did hit you." micro limits is not the place to bluff i found out the hard way.