Good Time for Block Bet? Should I consider check-Graczing it?

HiatusOver · #1 10-25-2005, 01:06 AM

OK, my buddy has to go run outside real fast...he is deep in the Party Super Monday so he IMs me and I log in. He has about T6500 in chips when this hand comes.

Blinds 300-600

Cut-Off (T20,000) limps
Button Folds
I (T6500) decide to complete in SB with J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
BB (T30,000) checks his option.

Flop (pot 1800) K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I bet T1000, BB Calls, limper folds

Turn (Pot 3800) A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I check he checks

River (Pot 3800) 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I consider a small block bet, no bigger than 1000. Then I decide to check. He bets 5000 basically committing our stack (leaves us T250 if we call and lose)

So...what do u think of the flop play? Is a block bet in order on the river? Should I considering Graczing it and picking off a missed flush draw on the river? I am having trouble putting this guy on a hand that checks the turn but value bets the river big.

HiatusOver · #2 10-25-2005, 01:31 AM

Guys this hand is actually real interesting on every street I think. Every street is debateable

DJ Sensei · #3 10-25-2005, 01:39 AM

I don't really like betting out this flop, it doesnt really accomplish much. The flop has enough in it (suited, connected, King) that you're probably against at least one hand who will call or raise. Of course, because you're OOP without a very strong hand, the turn will present you with a tough decision no matter what it is.

I'd check the flop, and see what develops. I'd like to see a moderate bet from the button, which you can then checkraise-push. You have enough chips left to have some fold equity against hands that beat you (weak kings, better 8's, etc.) and if you do get called, you probably have plenty of outs, as many as 14.

If it checks around and the turn is good (J, 8, any card lower than 8, [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]) then you can bet out with a better idea of where you stand.

As far as your line goes, you clearly have to fold the river, i think you could likely be up against A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]x [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], but theres plenty of hands out there that beat your measly pair of 8's. And yes, a blocking bet is a good idea, 1000 chips would be appropriate. Obviously, folding to a raise.

#4 10-25-2005, 01:46 AM

Talk about debatable..well.
1.I am all in preflop with a fairly optimal amount of money in there to steal
2.If not, I am allin on the flop with my 2 billion out semibluff...at this point in the tourney i want whats in there and worst case I have plenty of chances.

3.If not, I am allin on the turn. For him to just call my flop bet means he has no king, and no raise pre shows me no ace, so he cant call, and again if he does somehow, i have chances.

I guess goven the way he played it I suppose he can make the river bet i dunno. I think this pot should be over already.

I am always better as the aggressor. Make him put ME on a hand for the who,e stack, not the other way around.

sheets

HiatusOver · #5 10-25-2005, 01:52 AM

"Of course, because you're OOP without a very strong hand, the turn will present you with a tough decision no matter what it is. "

I really appreciate your response and u have some good things in there, only problem is u are kind of looking at this with a glass half empty approach. Our hand is superstrong here on the flop. I am willing to get it all in no matter what on the flop if possible

HiatusOver · #6 10-25-2005, 01:53 AM

Pushing this flop makes a lot of sense and I guess its probably right. Any clue at what point a push on this flop is no longer optimal? 3 times the pot push is probabl right? What about 5, 10?

0evg0 · #7 10-25-2005, 02:14 AM

I think a push preflop is debatable. Not bad, but it's just probably not a play I would make until I was at around 4500-5k...

On the flop, there's 1800 in the pot, you have 6200 left. I'm probably check/raising all-in if you have any feeling at all that Button will try to take it down if checked to. You have a million outs, have plenty of FE even if he bets the pot, etc.

I like this better than an open push on the flop because you're going to get that bluff bet from the Button often enough, and there really aren't that many cards that will come on the turn that you dread seeing in case Button checks it through.

If checked through on the flop, then I'm probably open pushing the turn just to take it down.

In this scenario, the river is an obvious fold and you'll be shown a runner-runner flush with no idea how to get paid off very, very often.

DJ Sensei · #8 10-25-2005, 02:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Our hand is superstrong here on the flop. I am willing to get it all in no matter what on the flop if possible

[/ QUOTE ]

No question that the hand is quite strong, and that getting all-in as fast as possible is a good result, but I think 1000 isn't a great amount to bet here.
I still prefer a checkraise. However, if you lead out, it should at least be for a full pot, probably even more (2000-2400 or thereabouts).
First of all, your opponents will face a tougher decision, and secondly, if you get called, it will be easy getting it all in on the turn. You might even force another player to call with a worse hand (say, a higher flush draw) because he feels too committed to it.

HiatusOver · #9 10-25-2005, 03:58 AM

U are right, I really blew it on the flop...I think I was possibly scared of going bust during the 2 minutes I ran the ship. In reality it was probably a leak that im glad I have reviewed