KQo (Bet flop, get popped. Bet turn, get popped)

[ElAnimal]

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Let me ask you this then: Why did you want to eliminate BB?

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Now keep in mind I'm new, respect your posts and I want to learn. As I understand it, BB could have plenty of outs against me. With a hand like top pair, good kicker the fewer opponents I have, the better it plays. You seem to be offering me the choice of either I'm 100% sure I'm ahead or 100% sure I'm behind. From what I read in SSHE, even if I think I might be behind, it can be correct to raise to eliminate other players (based on the size of the pot, a raise that increases your equity from say 30% to 45% can be correct). I wanted to eliminate BB to increase my equity. If you disregard all online tells, I agree that a re-raise is the best play, I just don't think I have to be positive I'm ahead to want villain to raise, then call. Say I have K8. Even if I think I'm ahead of villain just 49% of the time, eliminating BB here would increase my equity enough for the raise to be good for me (or so I thought).

In this case (if we disregard the tell) I've got to be ahead well over 50% of the time, so I agree that a re-raise on the turn is the correct play. But I disagree that I have to be sure I'm ahead to get villain to raise, eliminate BB then call down.

In the actual hand, I didn't disregard the tell. I bet the turnn planninng to re-raise when it came back to me, but I felt the insta-raise tell was strong enough that I was not necessarily ahead anymore. I also felt like if I was still ahead, there was a good chance if I three bet, he would fold, or call the turn and fold the river, which would earn me no more than simply calling him down.

[jskills]

I'd 3-bet this flop and lead the turn.

But if you're going to just smooth call the flop, shouldn't the plan be to check raise the turn?

I don't understand what the point of just calling the flop and then leading the turn is?

[MainEvent]

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I'd 3-bet this flop and lead the turn.

But if you're going to just smooth call the flop, shouldn't the plan be to check raise the turn?


I don't understand what the point of just calling the flop and then leading the turn is?

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He used the stop and go to help eliminate the BB by making the BB face two big bets to remain in the hand.

Check raising the turn never faces the BB with two bets at one time, therefore greatly reducing the chance that he will fold.

[ElAnimal]

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But if you're going to just smooth call the flop, shouldn't the plan be to check raise the turn?
I don't understand what the point of just calling the flop and then leading the turn is?

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If I check-raise, I can't face BB with calling two cold. I wanted the LAG to raise so I could lose BB. Most believe I made a mistake.

[shant]

"For if you raise KQo and AJo in EP and believe in your heart that you can pwn postflop, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9s)

[crunchy1]

Good reply - well thought!

In your original post you state a read for UTG:
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So far he's played any pair very fast

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This is one thought I've always had in mind as I've been replying on this hand. So he insta-raised - your read says he'll do that with any pair. Even if he's got top pair here - There's only one kicker that beats you and AK probably would've been raised PF.

So my issue on the turn is that the BB is likely drawing to very few outs. If you're behind you're likely drawing to very few outs. So if you think you're behind then why not let BB see the river if he wants for one BB. I agree you gain some equity by folding him out - but your equity gain is quite minimal if he's drawing to only a few outs (it may actually favor Villian more than you). And if you can't 3-bet for value on the turn then I think you're better off picking up the value of BB padding the pot rather than sticking in 2BBs with <= 3 outs.

Hope that helps. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ElAnimal]

I get it now. Thanks for taking the time to explain. If I had to play it again, I'd probably three-bet the turn. I think I'm also biased, as I know the tragic end to this tale:

Results in white: <font color="white"> Villain had A4 for the turned wheel </font>

[crunchy1]

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I think I'm also biased, as I know the tragic end to this tale:
Results in white: <font color="white"> Villain had A4 for the turned wheel </font>

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I would've been biased as well.