Keeping the Lead in the Blinds

[fizzleboink]

There are very few hands that we're ahead of that will call the river. So unless he is a gigantic calling station I think this is a check/call on the river to induce a bluff.

Note that if the turn had not paired the lowest card I think the river is a value bet.

[Guruman]

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There are very few hands that we're ahead of that will call the river. So unless he is a gigantic calling station I think this is a check/call on the river to induce a bluff.

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I totally disagree. There are all manner of ace high and underpair hands that decided preflop to showdown. I'm learning to fold to this raise more (since I can't seem to find anyone bluffing it), but to check/call out of fear that we're beat is weeeeeaaaaaaak.

Ace high, lower pairs, and lots of other random paired cards that we beat willcall that river bet. They will also check behind if we let them.

blind battles are different animals than a lot of the rest of poker.

they are battles of will, and are excellent places to punish people for puffing thier chests up. Blinds are also important places to get reads and look for mistakes. If the guy to your right calls too much, then check more when behind and bet more with a hand. If he bluffs too much, then call more. If he folds too much, then bet or checkraise more.

people tend to systemtically make one mistake or another in the blinds, but my no-read default is that they call too much because the generic opponent thinks his ace high or 44 hand is good way too often.

I bet that river and consider folding when it's raised. I'm not that curious.

If people are afraid of folding here because he'll "start taking shots at me":

Let him take his shots at me. I can deal with it.

If I see this coming, then he'd better be ready to watch me start showing down king high and checkraising my strong draws.

c'mon - bluffraise me.

lets see how gung ho you are when I adjust and start threebetting middle pair.

bitch.


[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[LoaferGee12]

Good post, I agree.

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Ace high, lower pairs, and lots of other random paired cards that we beat willcall that river bet. They will also check behind if we let them.

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When you say Ace high, you mean something like K9 that counts as A-high because of the Ace on board? Because any holding with an Ace is beating us.

A low PP is a good candidate for a worse hand that will call. The only other random paired cards that we beat and will call are weak tens and fives.

Meanwhile any A, 8, or good T is beating us. So do low PPs, weak Ts, and 5s really outnumber As, strong Ts, or 8s here? My guess is no because a 5 seems so unlikely. I say check/call the river.

[LoaferGee12]

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Meanwhile any A, 8, or good T is beating us. So do low PPs, weak Ts, and 5s really outnumber As, strong Ts, or 8s here? My guess is no because a 5 seems so unlikely. I say check/call the river.

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If he has an Ace or 8, he will be betting the river when checked to anyhow so how does check-calling favor bet/folding in that aspect?

[milesdyson]

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The only other random paired cards that we beat and will call are weak tens and fives.

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we beat no tens.

i check call this river. there are plenty of missed straights or turned flush draws that he can bluff with.

[Guruman]

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we beat no tens.


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we kick the hell out of T9, T7, T6, T5. I've seen all of these and more called out of the bb when the sb opens.

[Perseus]

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we beat no tens.


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we kick the hell out of T9, T7, T6, T5. I've seen all of these and more called out of the bb when the sb opens.

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Or we would if the board wasn't paired or the A didn't play [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[27offsooot]

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we beat no tens.


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we kick the hell out of T9, T7, T6, T5. I've seen all of these and more called out of the bb when the sb opens.

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Dude can u read? I think most of your advice in this thread is poor.

I am in the c/c camp here. If opponent is a horrible calling station, then bet, but if he's not, then i would c/c. I don't know what the typical unknown is at 1/2, so perhaps b/f is better.

[Guruman]

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When you say Ace high, you mean something like K9 that counts as A-high because of the Ace on board?

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yup. should have been more specific, but many good high cards hands will call here.

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Meanwhile any A, 8, or good T is beating us. So do low PPs, weak Ts, and 5s really outnumber As, strong Ts, or 8s here? My guess is no because a 5 seems so unlikely. I say check/call the river.

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while its true that many aces are beating us, I'd say we can pretty comfortably rule out AK-AT, A8, and most overpairs - as they would have found a raise waaaay before the river. probably preflop or on the flop.

that's 1/4 of the aces right there. the only one pair tens that beat us are QT and KT. Two pair tens either raise that flop or that turn.

An 8 improved on the turn, so it couldn't have raised pf or on the flop without another piece. I usually see an immediate turn raise, but a river raise is not unreasonable.

so when its our turn on the river we're likely up against
-the lower 3/4 of the ace range
-the upper half of the eight range (as 83o probably folds pf)
-the middle 3/4 of the ten range (as big tens will raise pf or on the flop, and crap ten probably fold pf)
-a pp 99 or lower
-some crap king high hand that's looking us up
-a busted draw (like 79[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]) that will probably fold

I think the portion of that range that both calls and would check through if we gave it a chance is significant enough that we have to bet it.

I also hate calling the raise, because the river is the blank of all blanks and it stinks of a slowplayed turn.

people play poker so they can call. Give them a bet to call with. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]