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#71
08-19-2005, 10:49 AM
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Re: Having kids when you aren\'t wealthy....
[ QUOTE ]
I'll say it again... If you are not willing to be a slave to your children...Do not have any. Being a slave to your children isn't about money. I'm too pissed and tired to explain life to you right now. [/ QUOTE ] ThinMan is dead on the money here. Despite the fact that he is a jackass most of the time, his point here is absolutely 100% correct. OP, I think, places a little too much emphasis on wealth. ~ThisHo 
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#72
08-19-2005, 10:59 AM
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Re: Having kids when you aren\'t wealthy....
This may be the worst thread I have ever read in OOT. Not everything in life is about the $. I pity people who make every decision in life based on money.
Coaching my children in sports, combing my daughters hair, taking my son to a Titans game - I cant put a monetary value on any of these things. They are truly priceless. My life (and my wife's) does revolve around my children, and I wouldn't have it any other way. That doesn't mean that my children are "in charge", they don't decide where we eat, they do obey their parents. We are middle class, and we do fine with 3 kids. It is all about choices. We don't drive brand new vehicles, we don't live in a 4,000 square foot home in the "richest" neighborhood. We don't go to Disneyland every year. Kids don't want to go to Disneyland, they want to spend time with their parents. As for all of this "you gotta be rich" to have kids bullshit, our kids have everything they need and then some, and we live in a nice house that we will soon own (no mortgage). Our kids are involved in several extracurricular activities. And my wife and I will probably be able to retire in our early to mid 50's. You don't have to make a ton of money, you just have to be smart with what you have. The vast majority of you guys need to grow up.
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#74
08-19-2005, 11:39 AM
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Re: Having kids when you aren\'t wealthy....
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not a parent myself, but many of my closest friends are. I find most of them have forgotten how to be adults. They've been reduced to sick, goofy photocopies of their former selves. And the reason why is because between working and raising their kids, they have no free time/spare money to do anything for themselves, by themselves. This causes them to be bad friends to those in our social circle, bad spouses to each other, and worse parents to their kids than they would be if they maintained their own identities. [/ QUOTE ] Bolded above is like saying "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV." I'm glad that you at least point out that you don't. Everyone posting in this thread should post age/maritalstatus/#kids for clarification of viewpoints. I don't think it would shock anyone to see the "must have $$$$ coming out my ass" group is <25 / single / no kids and the "impoverished won't cut it, but reasonable income is fine as long as you spend time with Johnny/Susie" group is >25 (probably >30) / married / kid(s). Until you have a kid you don't understand how much time and effort it really takes to raise one. My wife left a well paying full time job after she had our girl and is working part time from home + Sundays so that 1 of us is home with our little girl. Its been a HUGE adjustment. HUGE. We used to eat out 2 to 4 times per week ($50+ each time). We now do it maybe twice a month. She used to pick up whatever she wanted when she was out shopping with her mom/girlfriends. We now discuss if there's $$$ for her to pick up a new blouse before she goes. I used to play at a home game EVERY week and at the club almost every week. Now (1yr later) I'm just getting back to making it to the home game most weeks and I make it to the club about 1/mo. WE ARE HAPPIER THAN WE HAVE EVER BEEN! Sacrifice! Sacrifice! Sacrifice! The happiest moment of my day is when I walk in the door from my suck-ass job look up the stairs and my lil' girl is looking down the stairs with a HUGE smile on her face and my wife is right behind her with a big smile as well. The hug and kiss from both of them makes my day. You just can't explain it until you have it. Specific points raised in this thread: *1Mil net worth not including house? Are you f-ing kidding me? Go to France in the Spring for 3 weeks because I feel like it? Lets assume you have the $$$ to do that, your kids are in school so you still can't do it. Seriously, your P*ker success has warped your sense of monetary reality for 95% of the worlds population. You're living on another planet. *Being a slave to your kids doesn't mean you spoil them. It means you are willing to lay down your life for them. It means that you love them more than you love yourself and you will do everything you can to give them the best life possible. *paying for college or not paying for college is not the determining factor in whether or not a kid will screw around and blow it at college. Pay/NotPay may amplify that decision, but its not going to be the deal breaker. How they were raised, values instilled in them, their desire to be at college, and others determine if they make it or not. *one night a week and one week/year isn't unreasonable, but it doesn't necessarily take a ton of money. Sitters aren't that expensive and you can find cheap things to do at night. *SammyKid : ask your friends that have kids if they are happy. Ask them if they would trade their kids for the freedom to do whatever/whenever. You're likely to get a "yes we're happy, no we wouldn't trade" answer. Clearly there are some people that shouldn't have had kids that wish they didn't, but $$$ isn't the reason for this. If they aren't good spouses to one another the kid isn't the reason for it. They probably weren't good spouses before the kid but its MUCH easier to hide that when you have all the $$$ and free time that DINKs (DoubleIncomeNoKids) have. You can hide a bad marriage when you are going out with friends together or seperate and flying away for vacations whenever and doing whatever you want. But when one of you has changed 10 diapers already that day and the other just got home from 10hours of work and you need to decide who is going to change the poopy diaper that just got made, that's when you find out how good your marriage is. Kids aren't for everyone. If you don't want to sacrifice, don't have kids. If you think they are too expensive, then no matter how much you make, they are - don't have them. I'd much prefer that none of you douchebags that think $$$ is the only thing never have any kids because I don't want my daughter meeting any of your kids. ~ThisHo
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#75
08-19-2005, 11:45 AM
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Re: Having kids when you aren\'t wealthy....
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'm not a parent myself, but many of my closest friends are. I find most of them have forgotten how to be adults. They've been reduced to sick, goofy photocopies of their former selves. And the reason why is because between working and raising their kids, they have no free time/spare money to do anything for themselves, by themselves. This causes them to be bad friends to those in our social circle, bad spouses to each other, and worse parents to their kids than they would be if they maintained their own identities. [/ QUOTE ] Bolded above is like saying "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV." I'm glad that you at least point out that you don't. (edited for space) Kids aren't for everyone. If you don't want to sacrifice, don't have kids. If you think they are too expensive, then no matter how much you make, they are - don't have them. I'd much prefer that none of you douchebags that think $$$ is the only thing never have any kids because I don't want my daughter meeting any of your kids. ~ThisHo [/ QUOTE ] Very well said. The head-shaker for me was the comment "This causes them to be bad friends to those in our social circle" lol, I knew it was a lost cause at that point and went to bed shortly after... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#76
08-19-2005, 11:53 AM
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Re: Having kids when you aren\'t wealthy....
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I find this thread very sad. I have 3 kids and I am by no means wealthy but I make enough to live comfortably enough. I cant just pop into the store and buy whatever, whenever, but who cares? For free I can go fly kites, swim, color, and play boardgames with my kids. [/ QUOTE ] Very nice. However, like another poster said, always making your kids feel like a burden is lame, which is what some parents do. They make you feel bad that they have to buy you clothes.
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#77
08-19-2005, 12:01 PM
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Re: Having kids when you aren\'t wealthy....
[ QUOTE ]
Very well said. The head-shaker for me was the comment "This causes them to be bad friends to those in our social circle" lol, I knew it was a lost cause at that point and went to bed shortly after... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Yep, the "my friends had a kid and now they never hang out with us" argument for not having kids is pretty lame. I don't play hide and seek with the kids I knew when I was 8 anymore either, I must be a shitty friend. All that said ... I hate the fact that I agree with a Giants fan! =) ~ThisHo
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#78
08-19-2005, 12:27 PM
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Re: Having kids when you aren\'t wealthy....
I think you fit his description of wealthy. KKF chose his words poorly in the OP I think. It seems to me by wealthy he meant not financially distressed and with some discretionary income and security.
You said [ QUOTE ] Coaching my children in sports, combing my daughters hair, taking my son to a Titans game - I cant put a monetary value on any of these things. They are truly priceless. [/ QUOTE ] These are things a lot of people cannot do because they are busy trying to make end's meat. As to taking your son to a Titans game, what does that run all told? A couple of hundred bucks? That is a fortune to some families. I would argue that one of the reason you can do all these things AND get enjoyment from them is that you are not worrying about things like making rent, your car being reposessed, scraping up a couple of hundred dollars for that emergency, going bankrupt because you needed medical attention and didn't have insurance, etc. Money problems are a huge sourse of marital spats and divorce. I don't think it is a bad idea to not want to have children until you know you are at a place where you can adequately provide for them.
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#79
08-19-2005, 12:30 PM
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Re: Having kids when you aren\'t wealthy....
[ QUOTE ]
to a Titans game [/ QUOTE ] As a Steelers fan, I am able to help you out with the value (or lack thereof) on this part... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
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#80
08-19-2005, 12:54 PM
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Re: Having kids when you aren\'t wealthy....
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Very well said. The head-shaker for me was the comment "This causes them to be bad friends to those in our social circle" lol, I knew it was a lost cause at that point and went to bed shortly after... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Yep, the "my friends had a kid and now they never hang out with us" argument for not having kids is pretty lame. I don't play hide and seek with the kids I knew when I was 8 anymore either, I must be a shitty friend. All that said ... I hate the fact that I agree with a Giants fan! =) ~ThisHo [/ QUOTE ] You are a shitty friend because of this, even though you may not realize it. But its your choice and your priorities, you picked your kids in front of your friends, as most people do. I am 23, most of my friends are 25-28, they are all getting married and having kids, about 2 years ago, if one of them asked me for a favor, Id drop whatver I was doing and help them out. Now I would tell them to go fukc themselves. I dont speak to them anymore because they are all dumbass working stiffs, that were too broke to get married in the first place, so now they struggle for every dollar, and dont have time to go out. And if I do get a rare call, its usually to invite me to play boardgames, ya thats what I want to do on a friday night, play boardgames. From what Ive gleamed, its all about being pussywhipped and a change of priority to most people. Stupidity.
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