how do you play K Q suited?

[chessforlife]

Ok it's 6 handed, no limit holdem. Blinds are 50 and 100
your on the button with K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and sb is tight as a rock, big blind is also relatively tight and will relinquish his blinds if rasied and doesn't have a hand. seat 3 folds. seat 4 raises to 300, 5 folds. It's on you

You have 4400 and seat 4 has 7000, sb and bb have $5,000 each.

Would you raise? How would you play this Preflop?

Ok the hand under question continues, you raise 200 making it 500. sb and bb fold and seat 4 (who plays all suited connectors and decent hands, a player to be respected) just calls.

The flop comes down A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and seat 4 bets 1000.

What is your play here?

Results later.

[JDErickson]

These are my thoughts from a relative newbie.

We need more info to make the call. Where in Tourney are you at. How many remaining, How far are you from money? Whats avergae stack size. This sounds like a single table tourney so you have 3 more places to go to hit the money.

Only 2 options in my mind. Fold or Raise All-in. If this is a single table tourney and there are 6 remaining I would probably fold against a tight player and all-in against a loose or maniac.

Jim

[Ron]

Hi, I don't understand the raise by you of only $200, You say a very good player raised $300 3xs bb and then you followed with a smaller [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] raise. He know you don't have A so he can bluff or win with smaller pr. I think he has a-j or middle pr. LOL Ron

[1800GAMBLER]

I'd consider folding before raising, what hand can he raise with that doesn't have you dominated? or at best 50/50?

[crockpot]

here are my plays in order of preference (from good to bad), assuming you have reason to believe the raiser does not have to have a hand to make this play:

1. raise big (1000ish) and hope he lays his hand down
2. fold
3. raise small
4. call

i would never even consider calling or raising small here. your goal in a tournament is to win pots without showing down hands, and neither of these will accomplish that. if the player has pretty strict raising standards, you have a fold. if not, you can choose between a semi-bluff big raise and a fold. i don't like the min reraise at all.

on the flop, you have an all-in or fold situation, and again i prefer the fold.

[Jon Matthews]

I like the way the min raise to 500 took out the blinds but as a rule I hate them and would probably have raised to 700 and make seat 4 think about his hand for a bit.

As the hand stands, once bet into, you should probably just call. Seat 4 has an ace and an all in raise will probably induce a call, he'll see it as a coinflip to knock you out of the tourney knowing you're drawing.

Calling would also have the advantage of scaring seat 4 if he doesn't have an ace. He may check to you on the turn in which case, it's an automatic all in IMO if it's a blank or spade.

A lot of people don't like raises with KQs/o but I like this hand, I've seen it do a lot more damage than people give it credit for.


Jon

[gavrilo]

Against a good player, I muck this so fast my cards would probably hit the pile before the player before me.

Realistically what hand would this good player have that you aren't a dog to???? Muck preflop is what I would do, but that's me.

[ALL1N]

Why not call?

If you call, you've got position with a hand that can hit the flop hard enough to move-in with quite often. I like to be in such a situation where I am headsup or 3-way with position against a preflop raiser with a hand that is good on the flop.

Reraising any size with KQs isn't particularly good; the hands that you are happy to be up against when you call - say AJ, AT, Ax (depending on opponent), JJ, TT, 99, xx (again, if there aren't enough hands in these ranges you should be folding) - are all beating you preflop, and your opponent could conceivably move in on you (if you reraised) or call (if you pushed it in) with some of these hands. And that's the thing about KQs - it just loves seeing flops, but it is hopeless to get allin with preflop.

KQs is a strictly drawing hand in this situation, and I believe a call or fold is best.

Cheers

ALL1N

[Zag]

I am with some of the other posters in hating your raise preflop. All you accomplished was to isolate a player who had you dominated. Then you got your ideal flop, and didn't know what to do.

if you thought you were ahead preflop (and why would you?) you should have raised more. I doubt that you were ahead, but you have a very big drawing hand. With such a hand, you want to see the flop cheaply and you want to have good pot odds and implied odds, which means lots of callers.

Just call preflop and bring the blinds along.

In either case, when Seat 4 bets out, you have a pretty simple calculation. You are almost certainly looking at an ace, probably with a king or a queen, so you will need to make your flush to win.

Betting all in is not much of a consideration, IMHO, because it is only a raise of 2900, and the pot would be 6050, so I doubt he would lay down a good ace. He might lay down KK or QQ, but he is unlikely to have those, given that you hold one of each. You are actually a little bit ahead of JJ and TT, and only a little behind QQ.

You probably have 9 outs, though maybe the 8s is not good. Assuming best case for a sec, you are looking at 9 of 45 cards (putting him on AK or AQ) or 1 to 4 odds. The pot is only offering 2 to 1 odds, so you should only call if you think he will pay you off if you hit your flush.

If you miss the flush on the turn, you will probably have to call all in to continue. Again, the pot will offer 2 to 1 for a 4 to 1 draw, so you will be forced to fold.

All things considered, at this point, I think you should fold. Only if you are pretty sure to get paid off if the flush hits should you call.

[turnipmonster]

note: I am a inexperienced no limit player.

hmm, you are a 2.6 - 1 dog to make your hand by the river, and 5.2 - 1 on the turn, but your hand will almost certainly be good if you hit (assuming 9 outs i.e. he's got top pair already). also, he's got you covered, so you can double your stack on this hand.

you're only getting 2-1 in immediate odds on your call, but the fact that he's a big(ger) stack is giving you good implied odds to hit your hand (around 6 to 1, assuming he pays you off).

how is my thinking on this so far?

so given all that info, I would say your call is better than an even money decision (also you can add 1 out for the several runner-runner draws you can hit (KQ,JT), I didn't factor that in).

unless you think there is a good chance he will fold, I'm not sure that raising all in here is the best play. you wreck the odds you're currently getting, and you don't even have him covered, so you can't "put him to a decision for all his chips".

so for those reasons I say you call the 1k.

--turnipmonster