Turn action? Questionable flop cap?

[Joe Tall]

You and I agree that I should bet the turn. I was stating I didn't fear the straight as you alluded to in your frist reply.

If a blank hits the river after both call the turn, feel there is anyvalue in a river bet?

[TStoneMBD]

definitely a value bet imo

also id like to comment that if both players call the turn and a blank hits the river and you check, then a turn bet really didnt make any sense. youre basically saying you dont think youre ahead more often than not which means that a turn bet isnt for value but to protect your hand and get to showdown for the same price as a check and call. unfortunately the risk of a checkraise outweighs the value you get on protecting a hand that you feel is likely behind. if there was no value in a river bet then i agree with a turn check, but i believe a river bet has a great deal of value.

[oreogod]

Your WT is probably not going to be jamming with a set (maybe he does, dunno)...Id say u are good against SB, as hes probably betting this turn if he has a T w/ 4 to a str8 out there, to me the passive player is who Id worry about, but he could have anything. Its an intresting situation.

Anyway, I usually bet here. I think checking may keep it clean but feels pretty weak for the situation.

EDIT:another thing would the passive player CR a ten here? If he bets it that would be even more of a reason to bet if he calls with anything and bets out with his strong hands. ****NM, just saw your comment that he would bet the str8

[Surfbullet]

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so it all hinges on how aggressive he is with a 1 pair hand.

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Exactly, and I'm sure he's agressive w/TPGK, TPTK as I've whitnessed it. Now, if we make a the assumption that he is aware of the SB call-station status, wouldn't this posibly bring his agression higher? Therefore, 3-betting w/TPGK/TK on the flop?

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While this is certainly true it's also important to note that he bet-3bet, rather than c/r'd his hand. He gave up the opportunity of protecting his hand against the third player, so his holdings are likely to be stronger. If you deem him aggressive enough postflop ( i have very little experince with this type of player, so I'm going to have to take your word for it ) to play AQ/KQ or even KK/AA this way then the flop cap is good and turn + river value bets are in order if we are not called.

I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see AA/KK here occasionally, but if we are considering those then we have to consider QQ/JJ which are but 1 combination each. Since we can narrow his range so appreciably then I think the aggressive route you took is the correct one.

Surf

[StellarWind]

AA/KK come strongly into consideration here versus a tight/passive.

That the turn checked to you means a straight is unlikely. You are behind 5 sets. You are ahead of 12 overpairs and 12 flopped two-pair plus there are 4 chops.

Flop cap is good and you need to bet the turn, especially with a calling station padding the action.

I don't agree with the people who said a ten is unlikely for the flop action. An OESD is the kind of tangible value that a tight/passive appreciates and any plausible second card adds a lot of value. I think it is very possbile he would jam such a hand. Anyway an aggression factor of 1.15 tells me that SB does play his good hands. He's not completely passive postflop.

[Joe Tall]

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AA/KK come strongly into consideration here versus a tight/passive.


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I never said he was tight-passive, weak-tight in my book is knowing what to do preflop but as soon as they don't have the "nuts" or are shown they are behind, they slow down fast missing value all over the place. There is no way he doesn't 3-bet KK, AA preflop.

[flawless_victory]

flop cap not questionable.
bet turn.
bet river.
ship it.

[Joe Tall]

I bet the turn, both called.

River: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I bet, only SB called, history showed AQ.

Thanks for your replies.