15/30 Live

[ErrantNight]

Don't you want the button?

[Joe Tall]

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I'm sorry if one of our lesser posters (double entendre) are giving you trouble. Please don't let that deter you from continuing to post in this forum.


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It's just that he has yet to answer my direct question of "why" and has yet to really add any of his thoughts behind what he has stated. It doesn't set much of an example and exemplifies why this forum is a turn-off.

Come on now, Evan, you little $hit, pony-up with some content!

[Evan]

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[ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry if one of our lesser posters (double entendre) are giving you trouble. Please don't let that deter you from continuing to post in this forum.


[/ QUOTE ]

It's just that he has yet to answer my direct question of "why" and has yet to really add any of his thoughts behind what he has stated. It doesn't set much of an example and exemplifies why this forum is a turn-off.

Come on now, Evan, you little $hit, pony-up with some content!

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Relax, big fella! I was late for class before.

I think you should limp because the pot is going to be very multiway. You'll almost never win without a shodown and there are LOTS of bad boards where you'll be forced to put in more money if you've raised preflop than if you limp. Yes, your hand is likely best at the moment, but that isn't enough. A2s would likely be the best hand too, but you wouldn't raise that. A 4 card flop is appealing, but only putting in one bet preflop is too because it can also give you better relative position on the flop.

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Limping preflop should, at the very least, be considered.

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That was my first thought! In a game this fishy, I definitely limp. There's a case made for this in Bob Ciaffone's and Jim Brier's excellent book titled "Middle Limit Holdem". I'll post the passage here if you're interested, fellas.

[vmacosta]

PF, raise is great cuz you're in position with a good hand and:
"I found myself a super juicy game."
On the flop, I don't see why you aren't 3-betting. With such a vulnerable hand and a nice pot, I'd like to be HU (even if EP has a hand with a ton of outs like flush draw+2 overs, I'd still like to fold BB if he has A5/A4/A2 type hands). Waiting till the turn is nice if you're gonna fold to the scare card, but even if turn comes the flush card, you shouldn't fold for one bet since you have nice full house draw+possible redraw with 8s and occasionally the best hand. Turn and river are standard.

[chief444]

FWIW, I generally raise 88, limp with 77. However, I'd say the looser the opponents are the more likely I am to limp...as you point out. I think the aggressiveness/passiveness of the opponents should also be considered. If I'm much more likely to get checked to on the flop then I'll raise more pairs. But if the opponents are loose and aggressive I raise less.

But really...88...whatever. Normally I raise but I don't have a real strong argument either way. Otherwise the hand seems pretty standard.

[DeathDonkey]

Joe, I think what Evan is saying, is if 88 is the lowest hand you will raise, it has to be pretty close to a limp. Otherwise, why not raise 77 or limp 99? Are you saying 88 is a definitive cutoff point to raise with and 77 is on the other side? I don't know how this can be argued really but raising is fun so I raise.

-DeathDonkey

[Joe Tall]

Given my solid image at the table, I raise 88 here everytime. The raise is silightly positive, mixes up your play naturally and leverages your position. There are times where I limp but rarely. Someone once said to me, "Raise a lot preflop and never fold", and how oddly simple that sounds, it's not all that incorrect.

I checked through the river and the Big Blind showed 82s and I dragged it. The erratic flop raisers said he folded the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on the turn.