could this be a leak?

checkmate36 · #1 12-03-2005, 09:58 AM

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.

Turn: (2.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Small pot and I thought taking a shot at it was ok. Sometimes the first person to bet takes it down. I have overcards if Im called. Should I save this for when Im against less opponents? I make this play often enough that it can be an area that I need to address.

River: (6.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks, Button bets, Hero folds, UTG+1 folds, MP3 folds.

No more money goes into the pot after I tried to win it on the turn.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB

#2 12-03-2005, 10:01 AM

Personally, I don't like it in the slightest. C/F this hand from the flop on

xGoreDudex · #3 12-03-2005, 10:21 AM

hey check, sometimes pots like these can be inticing. However, your facing a lage field and a very tiny pot. I don't think this is the spot to fire off as I can't see you folding this field.

Pot's too small for this to have any value against this size of field.

checkmate36 · #4 12-03-2005, 10:42 AM

Thanks [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

mxer7734 · #5 12-03-2005, 10:45 AM

Save those types of bets for the mid-higher limits. They generally dont work in the micros its just like giving money away there, you will get called by ace high, any pair, any draw at that limit. It might work once in a great while but Its not a play to be used in the micros. Once you hit 3/6 or higher it will be beneficial to you to try that play again. Until then, save the money.

HouseCalls · #6 12-03-2005, 10:47 AM

Agaianst 5 players (and at this limit probably assume at least 3 calling stations) I have stopped trying this steal. Stealing in these games just doesn't seem to work very well. I will now try it against maybe two or fewer opponents if their PT stats suggest they are tighter than the usual low limit type. This seems to have a (small) +EV. Otherwise I check it around and see what happens - these players tend to be so LP that sometimes you end up picking up the pot on the river anyway without having to risk a steal against calling stations.

#7 12-03-2005, 10:53 AM

I never do this against 4 players. At max, 2. Sometimes 3 if it's a "good" board and the players are right.

#8 12-03-2005, 12:34 PM

I think in full ring, someone's bound to have a piece of the flop. Either way, you're not likely to fold all 4 players. If you were on the button, it might be worth a try, but again, this is 4 players. At least one of them usually wants to be the protector of the pot.

no1super2001 · #9 12-03-2005, 01:32 PM

Perhaps not a leak, but spewing.

Check/fold every round.
Just say goodbye to your 0.05 and move on.

#10 12-03-2005, 02:54 PM

Actually taking a stab at a pot is an interesting issue ... I do not mind it at all, I must confess though, that I have never have played at those limits, so I have no Idea what so ever about the calling station ratio pr. pot (a newly invented parameter/concept for the occasion)

Anyway here goes:
What is important is two things

1. What am I representing

2. What can my opponents hold

1 depends on preflop betting .. if you are the preflop raiser, then you can represent an overpair and sling out a leadbet on the flop .. that is pretty basic .. I might also buy a free card on the turn if you have position ... but enough said, that is just basic stuff seen all the time, and certainly not the case here

So what is the case here ??

Here if you bet you are representing

A. you are holding a deuce and just made trips

B. you are holding a small pair like 88 and now you are betting out for value and to protect your hand (Why didn't you bet on the flop then ?? Well this is where is becomes slightly advanced. You didn't bet on the flop because you figured that a small bet would not drive anyone out and didn't want to build the pot since it then would get harder to drive opponent out on turn if the board still favors you)

C. You have picked up a flushdraw with the second spade and now betting for value (admitted this play is only good if you expect all four opponets to call and still be weak enough to not raise, which is not uncommen at low limits)

D. You are trying to steal the pot .. (perhaps holding overcards)

Which of these is more likely to scare your opponents

A. is a scary ... you have hit trips ... is it likely .. hmmm perhaps, perhaps not ... people do not play many deuces, and since two of them are already on the board ... well ...

B. This might come to mind at a higher limit, but .. well

C and D are most likely

But the crux of the matter is being ready to fire that second barrel !!

What you where doing was actually setting yourself up to win the pot if either a spade or perhaps a blank would hit on river ...

Although the play might work, It is properly best saved against fewer opponents and at a higher limit, where players think more (and bets hurt more)

And you have to be prepared to fire that second barrel on the river

Seen from your perspective An Ace on The River was a awfull card to see