PP 10/20 AQ TPTK v. Button 3 bet

StacysMom · #1 09-20-2005, 12:10 PM

So after seeing the last peak of my bank roll $6000 and 50K hands ago, I'm beggining to question every part of my game. So I am resolving to post quite a few hands, even ones that may seem rather simple, as I no longer am sure I'm playing winning poker.

Villian is a regular grindier. I have 1k+hands on him at 16/10/2
Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 4 folds, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button calls.

River: (8.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB

Thoughts?

#2 09-20-2005, 12:16 PM

I personally treat this as WA/WB type situation. I'm not worried about giving free cards as I am potentially (likely?) already behind to QQ-AA.

StacysMom · #3 09-20-2005, 12:23 PM

I put villians preflop range here as 77-AA, AK, AQ, possible AJs.

Does that change your opinion of WA/WB, as hes not gonna lay down many PP's and allowing me to value bet? Not to mention peeling with AK?

#4 09-20-2005, 12:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I put villians preflop range here as 77-AA, AK, AQ, possible AJs.

Does that change your opinion of WA/WB, as hes not gonna lay down many PP's and allowing me to value bet? Not to mention peeling with AK?

[/ QUOTE ]

By checking the flop and turn, we have already given him the chance to peel with AK.

So I think the important part is the turn c/r. And it really comes down to if your range of 3-betting hands is accurate, and how often you think he will lay down a hand like 77-JJ to a turn c/r.

So I'm not really sure. I think the turn c/r opens you up to getting 3-bet by AA-QQ and allow him to lay down a worse hand. I think I just call the turn and lead the river if it's not a king. This allows him to call with his 77-JJ hands and I think we're less likely to get 3-bet if he doesn't have QQ.

thesharpie · #5 09-20-2005, 01:05 PM

I just check raise the flop usually. I don't want to find out on the turn I'm behind, and I don't want him taking a free card with a worse hand, and I don't particularly want to knock out middle pocket pairs and AK.

#6 09-20-2005, 01:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
and I don't particularly want to knock out middle pocket pairs and AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Won't a flop c/r do this? AK or PP may fold on the turn.

StacysMom · #7 09-20-2005, 01:12 PM

If you notice the turn paired. This a time many ppl love to bluff CR the turn to put ppl off overs. I think hes peeling with AK folding the river UI, which I want him to do. And calling down with the 77-JJ assuming no A or K on the river. 3 betting AA-QQ.

And yes, I agree the most critical part of the hand is the turn.

#8 09-20-2005, 01:40 PM

You raised UTG+1, and if he thinks you're decent, I really doubt that he's gonna think that you're bluffing when the 5's pair.

If you think his range is as wide as 77-AA and that he will play the hands the way that you think he will to a turn c/r then I like your play. You get an extra bet out of AK and his smaller PP. You folding to a 3-bet?

ErrantNight · #9 09-20-2005, 01:44 PM

why do you want him to fold the river unimproved? doesn't calling and leading the river net you the same amount of bets, and also discourage those pocket pairs from folding?

if he's bluffing the turn, he might just fold to the raise with overs, and if he has overs, he's drawing to three outs, and will likely call or raise if an A hits. if you're behind, you avoid getting 3-bet, and can showdown without fear of being bluffed for the same.

ErrantNight · #10 09-20-2005, 01:47 PM

you're contradicting yourself. regardless of villain's range, it's a way ahead, way behind situation. AK is folding to a turn c/r. they're more likely to call a river donkbet than a turn c/r. likewise smaller pocket pair.

i'm not sure why this isn't way ahead/way behind, and i'm even less sure why you're struggling to validate our hero's reasoning. because the board paired? i fail to see how that changes the situation. it makes villain's turn bet MORE likely to be a bluff, hero says. fine. than that makes it even more incorrect to raise on the turn, and might actually make a case for check/calling or check/raising the river as opposed to leading.