PFR 3 bet, flop check

1800GAMBLER · #1 09-15-2005, 01:37 PM

No notes.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (5 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (3.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (5.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 6.25 BB

completely standard?

Stuck · #2 09-15-2005, 01:47 PM

Looks weak to me. I think you need to bet your draws HU. Your opponent could conceivably bet the turn with almost anything, given the weakness you showed on the flop. I'd probably bet the flop, and the turn, and the river until he gave me some indication he'd got a hand. If you don't bet the flop I think you need to raise the turn when your Q hits giveing a weak king the opportunity to fold and buying yourself a free showdown on the river.

#3 09-15-2005, 01:53 PM

Very weak. Bet flop. Bet turn. Check river UI, bet any improvement.

1800GAMBLER · #4 09-15-2005, 01:57 PM

eh you people realise that 3 betting preflop then checking the flop out of position is a very rare move and thus usually means one type of range?

raising the turn is probably the worst possible thing i can think of doing in this hand, well, other than folding when checked to.

InfernoLL · #5 09-15-2005, 02:02 PM

Bet the flop. If you think he's slowplaying a monster, check behind on the turn for the free card when he should try to check raise you. If he check raises the flop or bets out on the turn you've put in a few extra small bets with a decent draw.

#6 09-15-2005, 02:04 PM

This is 5-handed so the BB's standards for a 3 bet are considerably less. I think he has A-something (not AK) and whiffed the flop.

I agree that raising the turn is not hot given the flop action since you will win more when ahead and lose less when behind by calling. However I would bet the flop and the turn if checked to. Your hand is definitely worth a showdown after pairing on the turn.

1800GAMBLER · #7 09-15-2005, 02:06 PM

i think whiffed flop hands are much much more likely to bet the flop than big hands. then factor in big hands are much more likely to bet the river than whiffed flop hands.

Turning Stone Pro · #8 09-15-2005, 02:14 PM

i agree with this strategy. i hate the flop check.

TSP

Stuck · #9 09-15-2005, 02:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
raising the turn is probably the worst possible thing i can think of doing in this hand, well, other than folding when checked to.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, its just the way you played it I can't see how you're so sure you're not up against a mid/low pocket pair, or an Ax or AT, or even another QJ, especially against an unknown opponent.

surfdoc · #10 09-15-2005, 02:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't bet the flop I think you need to raise the turn when your Q hits giveing a weak king the opportunity to fold and buying yourself a free showdown on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

This thinking seems very far off to me. What kind of opponent will be aggressive enough to 3bet a "weak king" preflop and then fold top pair headsup?

As far as the hand itself I agree that 3 bet then flop check is a super scary move and usually means monster. I think you played it fine and although a river fold may be best I would be tempted to show down once my hand improved on the turn.