New to the Game

[WarDekar]

I'm new to 7 stud, I mean I knew how to play before now but I just started playing online. I'm up quite a bit in a few sessions, playing $2/4 up maybe $100 or so. Anyway, I'm playing right now and I've lost with what I thought were some good hands:
Trip 9s loses to trip Js, very next hand high 2 pair loses to trip Js again, couple hands later I have a straight after 5 raise and bet out the entire way until someone catches a straight one higher on the 7th (amazingly, I had 2345678), lost with high trips to a boat, all this in a session of an hour tops and I'm down $35 during the session (only one big win really with an Ace-high straight).

Are these typical winning hads in a 6-8 handed game? Previous to this session I saw a ton of two-pair winners, etc., and it's not like I'm facing extremely good board cards or anything they've just had the hole cards to beat me. Are there any good sites on 7 stud strategy? So far I call the deal if I have 3 face cards, 3 suited, a decent pair, or 3 connected, are these decent start hands? Thanks.

[Lin Sherman]

Unless you have a rock-crusher like aces full, your good hands never have that much edge in stud. This is especially true in multiway pots where your opponents' combined "outs" can make you a big underdog to the field when you have a big pair or two small pair.

Expect swings to be big in stud. If you are playing on limited funds, you might want to drop down to the microlimits. Results of of +$100 or -$35 are actually small for a 2/4 session.

Lin

[WarDekar]

Yeah, my session today ended up down $65. I made an 8 high straight on the 5th card lost to a 9 high on the 7th lost a bunch there, then I lost a TON when i made a 10 high straight I lost to a flush on the 7th (he had 3 buried) so naturally I was capping. since his board didn't look too scary. Oh well, I guess I'll learn as I go...

[Andy B]

Capping with a straight on the river is a bad idea. Raise if you think you have the best hand, but if someone comes over the top of you, the chances are that he has you beat. You call, of course, unless there's no way you can win. It's just too easy for someone to have a hidden flush or full house in this game.

Hands run much higher in stud than they do in hold'em. If the game is loose, the average winning hand is going to be something like three of a kind. Multi-way hold'em pots are often won with one pair. This is almost never the case in stud, especially if there is any action.

You've heard the old saw about the farmer who lost his back forty because he drew to inside straights and missed, and then lost the rest of his farm when he finally hit one? The truth is that open-ended straight draws aren't all that much better. I'm not saying you should never play straight draws. I'm just saying that most players lose money on straight draws. I've had a certain amount of success in this game, and I don't think I'm much better than break-even with them. Straight draws are tough to bring in, and they don't always hold up when they get there. Flush draws are much, much better. They're a little easier to fill, and they usually hold up. High straight draws are usually worth pursuing, as you might back into a big two pair or something like that. Medium straights are usually worth limping in with. I usually muck 543 and 654 for the bring-in unless my cards are live and I'm very sure it won't be raised.

Buy Seven Card Stud for Advanced Players. Even at $2/4, it should pay for itself in no time.

[WarDekar]

Okay, I guess I'll start thinking of straights as less. What about the following hand I participated in last night and lost quite a bit to:

I won't detail the entire hand for you, but I was dealt 3 to a flush (Ace high), another guy was showing an Ace of clubs, third guy showing a K. This was 5 handed, 1 other guy in (forget what he hand, irrelevant anyway). after the 5th card, I have 4 to a flush now pretty many still active, the guy with the A clubs has another A, guy showing a K bets into us, Aces calls, I call, I figure he has trips since he bets into AA. 6th card gets checked through. Aces bets, I raise, Ks re-raises, As calls, I re-raise to cap it. Turns out the K guy had 3 hole cards to make a boat (his board was very un-intimidating), the other guy also had an Ace high flush (I thought he might, but I had a jack kicker so I thought I'd be good, he had a jack kicker as well and his 3rd was higher than mine). Should I not have re-raised? The guy that had the boat had been playing really poorly IMO so I thought he'd have trips at best, but obviously I was wrong as he made his boat on the 7th (although I can't really complain since I made my flush on the 7th as well).

Oh yeah, I forgot to add, I did get a King as well on 6th, so at that point I thought he might just be going on 2 pair (which he in fact was until the 7th)

[CJC]

WarDekar,

Yes, once again capping on the river was a foolish mistake. Actually, a very good case can be made for just CALLING the first bet ( not raising the 1st time )

Remember this. Even when you think you are playing against a fool; fools can get big hands too!


CJ

[Andy B]

Well, you haven't given us a lot of information. The first raise on the river may have been OK. The second raise was ill-advised at best. You had the guy on trips. He then checked sixth street. When he bets the river, it probably means he improved. If he improved his trips (or two pair), your flush is no good. A poor player is about as likely to hit a full house as anyone else, and the scragglier someone's board is, the more likely it is that his river raise means a hidden full house.

If you have an Ace-Jack-high flush, and you know the other guy has an Ace-high flush, I would guess that it's probably around 50% that you have the best hand. I don't feel like doing the probabilty calculation, but you don't have a raising situation. You do with an Ace-King flush, though.

[MRBAA]

War, I have played quite a bit in those 2-4 games. If you have won $1,000 in "just a few" sessions, you have been experiencing the positive side of the high variance that comes with this game. Your true expectation, even if you are a good player, is almost certainly much lower. I've averaged winning more than 2bb/hour in this game (more hands per hour than live game make this somewhat less impressive than it sounds, of course). But it hasn't bee slow and steady. I've had many sessions where I won or lost $200 in two hours. One memorable loss featured a monster pot in which my aces full was beaten by quad fours, with only one four showing. In that one, I reraised and even when my opponent capped I thought I was the winner!

[WarDekar]

Yeah, I lost a hand like that, it wasn't aces full but I had a boat and another guy had quad 3s with only one showing...it sucked...

[cero_z]

War Dekar,
"the scragglier someone's board is, the more likely it is that his river raise means a hidden full house."--Andy B
This is a very important point. A corrolary is that players rarely bluff when their board looks weak. Learning is hard but fun. Keep it up, and good luck.