Bottom set vs. Calling station, what's my turn line?

[Burdzthewurd]

Omaha Hi $0.50-$0.50 PL (real money)

Seat 2: BB ($83.25 in chips)
Seat 7: Button ($4.50 in chips)
Seat 8: Hero [5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] ($40 in chips)


PRE-FLOP
Button raises to $2, Hero calls $1.50, BB calls $1.50.

FLOP [board cards A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ]
Hero checks, BB checks, Button bets $2.50 and is all-in, Hero raises to $9, BB calls $9.

TURN [2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ]
Hero...

Button had busted 6-7 times for $10-$50 each time, on full-tilt and potting every hand with any 4, I'll take a shot 3-handed with small ds pairs.

Not the nicest flop for bottom set with a lot of straight draws available, BB wouldn't slowplay top or middle set, though.

Do most of you bet this turn? Seems like I'd be far more afraid of a 7,8, or 4 than a deuce.

[flawless_victory]

fold this horrible garbage PF. bet pot on turn 100%.

[willmay3]

Dude,

IMHO you have made a HORRIBLE call preflop. It is double suited, so I guess if you gotta dog you've got a Great Dane puppy, but think about it:

1. There is ALMOST no way that you have the best hand or one that is not reasonably outdrawn.

2. The button has VERY shallow money, so even if you outdraw him, your big win will be $4.50.

3. You are out of position with a hand that it would be charitable to describe as marginal.

4. You are building bottom set with this hand. As Bob Ciaffone has said about bottom set:
[ QUOTE ]
Many players do not realize how bad small sets really are, because the psychology of the situation causes them to improperly evaluate the hand. Small sets win a fair number of pots, but they seldom win big pots. They very often lose big pots!...Don't build hands that may well have only one out if you want to be a successful Omaha player. Dump those small pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

5. You have another player to act behind him. So, even if you are thinking about "isolating" this tilted player with your stunning 5's ds (sorry for the sarcasm - I've done this myself before), you very well may not be able to do it, and he (the bb) is very capable of taking all your money.

I have posted a couple of times here to the effect that the way to make money in low buy in PLO is nut peddling, pure and simple. It isn't sexy, it isn't very exciting, but, from my extensive experience in this, it is very profitable.

Save your money for another hand.

Now, for the specific question, I'm pretty sure, having gotten this far, at this point, I would make a pot sized raise as nothing the bb is doing is screaming set. You likely have the best hand, but may be easily overtaken, so protect that puppy Great Dane of a hand of yours.

With Regards,

Will

[Tilt]

Well, if you can't muck this preflop out of position to a raise in a situation with almost NO implied odds, what can you fold preflop?

Postflop if your read is that he is on a draw then shove as much as you can in. Your read looks pretty solid here and most of the money you make in this game at this level is from exploiting drawing hands in situations like these.

[Spellmen]

I would bet the turn, but BB's cold call of the $9 would really have me worried

[Burdzthewurd]

Turn went check/check (I suck by the way)

River card was J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I bet $10 and he called and showed down A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Button showed A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

and I took it down. A rather dubious flop cold-call with TPTK from BB.

[TheRempel]

If you're going to play this hand, bet the turn every time.

[RickyG]

[ QUOTE ]
fold this horrible garbage PF. bet pot on turn 100%.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
IMHO you have made a HORRIBLE call preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, if you can't muck this preflop out of position to a raise in a situation with almost NO implied odds, what can you fold preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

These are pretty strong statements. I respect most of the people saying them, but I think that you might want to practice your shorthanded play.

Bob Ciaffone wasn't talking about shorthanded omaha, which is what this is. If you play only the hands you play full ring at a shorthanded table you will be blinded out, and get no action when you play, IMO. I think with 3-5 players, this hand, under the right conditions is good enough to call preflop. There are however reasons to fold this hand preflop in this situation. This is a speculative hand, you want to play it against someone who has lots of chips. So cold calling the PF raiser's bet is a losing proposition if the other person doesnt call, because you can only win a small bit of money from him. This is why you want to be in position to play this hand. If you were on the button, and the other player had called, I would call every time too.

This is the kind of hand that makes omaha fun to play.

At first you might be disappointed by the fact that the other player called the 9 dollars, but you shouldnt be. Unless he has AA or 66 you are very likely winning, (which is unlikely given the fact that he coldcalled the pot bet and raise). This gives you something to fight over incase the PF raiser actually has AA or 66. On the turn, I think you have to bet the pot, and call if you are raised. The worst shape you can be in is 34 with two hearts, in which case you are still about %25 to win. if he has the 34 and no hearts, you are about even money, even if he has higher straight draws. if he has something stupid, like A J 8 K with two hearts, you are a huge favorite (85%). (the three of hearts and any board pairing heart make you win, plus you have two hearts in your hand, so he actually only has 5 outs.)

The river play is more player dependent. If he is the kind to bluff if he missed a draw, you could check/call, if he isnt, you might want to bet small (like you did) trying to get someone to call to try to keep you honest.

Anyway, you should have bet the turn, and called a reraise if you had to. That's my Opinion. Please feel free to tell my why you think I am stupid.
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1094906

[Burdzthewurd]

Thanks for the defense and analysis Ricky, great post!