$1-$2 hand on Paradise

Stud Experts,

Please analyze this hand from the positions of Ionesco, almel, and Genesis. Genesis is one of the best $1-$2 players, but I think he really botched this one on 3rd. Perhaps I did, too. Thanks for your help.

Game #246657508 - $1/$2 7-Card Stud - 2002/11/26-23:34:17 (CST)
Table "Makira" (real money)
Seat 1: Heiidi ($27.25 in chips)
Seat 2: Shahab ($36.50 in chips)
Seat 3: Ionesco ($117 in chips)
Seat 4: almel7 ($54.50 in chips)
Seat 5: genesisgkh ($107.25 in chips)
Seat 7: nineball ($92.25 in chips)
Seat 8: rolloff ($60.75 in chips)
Heiidi : Ante ($0.25)
Shahab : Ante ($0.25)
Ionesco : Ante ($0.25)
almel7 : Ante ($0.25)
genesisgkh: Ante ($0.25)
nineball: Ante ($0.25)
rolloff : Ante ($0.25)
Dealing...
Dealt to Ionesco [ Jd ]
Dealt to Ionesco [ Jc ]
Dealt to Heiidi [ Tc ]
Dealt to Shahab [ 7s ]
Dealt to Ionesco [ Ks ]
Dealt to almel7 [ 3s ]
Dealt to genesisgkh [ 4c ]
Dealt to nineball [ 8c ]
Dealt to rolloff [ 8d ]
almel7 : Bring-in ($0.50)
rolloff said, "that's a surprize"
genesisgkh: Raise ($1)
nineball: Raise ($2)
rolloff : Fold
Heiidi : Fold
Shahab : Call ($2)
Ionesco : Raise ($3)
almel7 : Raise ($3.50)
genesisgkh: Call ($3)
nineball: Call ($2)
Shahab : Call ($2)
Ionesco : Call ($1)
Dealt to Shahab [ Qs ]
Dealt to Ionesco [ 6s ]
Dealt to almel7 [ Td ]
Dealt to genesisgkh [ 4d ]
Dealt to nineball [ 6h ]
rolloff said, "damn"
genesisgkh: Raise ($2)
nineball: Call ($2)
rolloff said, "glad i folded"
Shahab : Call ($2)
Ionesco : Fold
almel7 : Call ($2)
Dealt to Shahab [ 9h ]
Dealt to almel7 [ Th ]
Dealt to genesisgkh [ 9c ]
Dealt to nineball [ Qc ]
almel7 : Bet ($2)
genesisgkh: Raise ($4)
nineball said, "i ctch one card i win"
nineball: Call ($4)
Shahab : Call ($4)
almel7 : Call ($2)
Dealt to Shahab [ Kc ]
Dealt to almel7 [ Qd ]
Dealt to genesisgkh [ Ah ]
Dealt to nineball [ 5s ]
almel7 : Check
rolloff said, "okcatch it"
genesisgkh said, "chase it"
nineball said, "tx"
genesisgkh: Bet ($2)
nineball: Call ($2)
Shahab : Call ($2)
almel7 : Call ($2)
Dealing...
almel7 : Check
genesisgkh: Bet ($2)
nineball: Fold
Shahab : Call ($2)
almel7 : Call ($2)
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $58.75 | Rake: $1
Heiidi lost $0.25 (folded) [ xx xx Tc ]
Shahab lost $14.25 [ 9s 9d 7s Qs 9h Kc Ad ] (three of a kind, nines)
Ionesco lost $4.25 (folded) [ Jd Jc Ks 6s ]
almel7 lost $14.25 (showed hand) [ 3h 3c 3s Td Th Qd Ac ] (a full house,
threes full of tens)
genesisgkh bet $14.25, collected $58.75, net +$44.50 (showed hand) [ As 4s 4c
4d 9c Ah 2h ] (a full house, fours full of aces)
nineball lost $12.25 (folded) [ xx xx 8c 6h Qc 5s xx ]
rolloff lost $0.25 (folded) [ xx xx 8d ]

[Dynasty]

I reccomend you rewrite the post in a more readable form. Most of us just ignore these types of hand histories because they are difficult to follow if you're not experienced at it.

[Lin Sherman]

Because of the goofy structure and low limit, raising to thin the field on third street rarely works in Paradise 1-2 games. So if you do raise, do so because you think making the pot bigger is to your benefit. Otherwise fold or call.

Although A44 (Genesis' hand) and JJK (yours) win more often in short-handed pots, they actually make more overall profit in multiway pots, especially if some of your opponents are playing cheese, which is typically the case in Paradise games. Therefore both Genesis' open-completion and your 3-bet are okay. Neither of you has any way to know that you are already up against trips, and you shouldn't assume you are because trips are so unlikely.

Lin

[Zoe's Echo]

When almel7 comes over the top for the final raise on 3rd street - I think he/she is sending a fairly strong message here - I am rolled and playing fast. I would have put you on split K's and genesisgkh on a 4 up and A's down.

Your post comments that someone at the table said "that's a surprise" when almel7 raised the bring-in. I am assuming that he/she would do this with any number of hands.

Individual play -

Almel7 - played great on 3rd - but poorly thereafter - I would have raised on 4th and re-raised on 5th without a doubt. Given the mostly low boards (inc. split 8's) I don't put genesisgkh on a set here after pairing his door card I most likely place him on A's up and raise. When he/she comes back over the top then I would slow down assuming set over set (would have been a lot of cursing under my breath as well). On 5th, almel7 certainly needs to re-raise - there is no way genesisgkh called all of those third street bets with split 4's - 9 kicker. When the A hits on 6th, that's when I slow down since I am convinced that he is filled one way or the other. Calling the rest of the way is acceptable given the size of the pot but when genesisgkh bets the river with two players left to act - I would know that I am toast.

genesisgkh - I would like to have this player at my table - calling two raises after a failed isolation attempt with split 4's with an A kicker seems like full out gambling. Based on the results it looks brilliant in hindsight. Without catching a 4 on 3rd street he/she will certainly face one if not two bets as you may lead with your concealed J's and almel7 will certainly raise. I just wouldn't putt in 2 BBs on 3rd with two legitimate outs. After 4th he/she played well IMO. The bet on 4th was smart since the player is aware of the deceptive value of the hand (assuming that almel is rolled and most likely puts genesis on two pair). The raise will allow him to put in three bets and better allows isolation against a dominated hand while driving out the draws. Genesisgkh also must have thought that some of his FH cards were live since he hadn't seen a 9 or an A shown (couldn't no the danger lurking with Shahab's pockets). Though he dragged the pot - genesis was behing most of the time and Shahab had a solid redraw for the whole pot. The other players fear genesisgkh too much since they are unwilling to re-raise against him with a FH!

As for you, since the pot was so big and all of your cards were live you might have had reason to peel on off on 4th street. However, when almel7 pairs on 5th it is time to get away from this hand. I wouldn't have changed much except maybe a call on 4th.

Shahab - stayed too long and got punished by catching a hidden set of 9's on 5th street, hard to fold this hand even though you assume that almel7 filled on 5th and genesisgkh filled on 6th. His 9 is dead, two Q outs have been exposed by 6th and you raised on third with a K up - if you had a split pair he had a total of 5 outs on the river. Probably should have gotten away from this hand on 3rd or 4th but once he hits on 5th it seems like an easy call as almel7 is just calling with his full house adding to the pot odds (23BBs in on 5th and 26th on 6th).

Tough loss for almel7 but I think he/she played it way too passively.

Interesting hand for sure.

Good Luck!

[Easy E]

Dealt to Ionesco [ JdJc] Ks
Dealt to Heiidi Tc
Dealt to Shahab 7s
Dealt to almel7 3s
Dealt to genesisgkh 4c
Dealt to nineball 8c
Dealt to rolloff 8d

almel7 : Bring-in ($0.50)
genesisgkh: Raise ($1)
nineball: Raise ($2)
rolloff : Fold
Heiidi : Fold
Shahab : Call ($2)
Ionesco : Raise ($3)
almel7 : Raise ($3.50)
genesisgkh: Call ($3)
nineball: Call ($2)
Shahab : Call ($2)
Ionesco : Call ($1)

** I wouldn't have capped it on 3rd- no point in revealing it at that point.

Dealt to Shahab 7sQs
Dealt to Ionesco [ JdJc] Ks 6s
Dealt to almel7 3s Th
Dealt to genesisgkh 4c 4d
Dealt to nineball 8c 6h

genesisgkh: Raise ($2) ** Don't know if I would have opened for the higher amount or not...
nineball: Call ($2)
Shahab : Call ($2)
Ionesco : Fold ** Not sure about the fold here, but it's definately raise or fold, not call IMO
almel7 : Call ($2)
Here's where I start raising- I want to find out about the 4's, and I want to punish or eliminate some of the draws.

Dealt to Shahab 7sQs9h
Dealt to almel7 3sThTh
Dealt to genesisgkh 4c4d9c
Dealt to nineball 8c6hQc

almel7 : Bet ($2)
genesisgkh: Raise ($4)
nineball said, "i ctch one card i win"
nineball: Call ($4)
Shahab : Call ($4)
almel7 : Call ($2)
HAVE to reraise here, representing two pair?

(the rest is pointless, since we won't know for sure if anyone dumps and genesis therefore doesn't catch the full house)

*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $58.75 | Rake: $1
Heiidi lost $0.25 (folded) [ xx xx Tc ]
Shahab lost $14.25 [ 9s 9d 7s Qs 9h Kc Ad ] (three of a kind, nines)
Ionesco lost $4.25 (folded) [ Jd Jc Ks 6s ]
almel7 lost $14.25 (showed hand) [ 3h 3c 3s Td Th Qd Ac ] (a full house,
threes full of tens)
genesisgkh bet $14.25, collected $58.75, net +$44.50 (showed hand) [ As 4s 4c
4d 9c Ah 2h ] (a full house, fours full of aces)
nineball lost $12.25 (folded) [ xx xx 8c 6h Qc 5s xx ]
rolloff lost $0.25 (folded) [ xx xx 8d ]