because it must be at least 10 mins without a post about pocket jacks

detruncate · #1 07-05-2004, 07:47 PM

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Opponents are loose, and at this point I'd say they're unpredictably aggressive. I have been winning a fair bit and showing down big cards.

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks.

River: (8.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB
Main Pot: 8.25 BB, between Hero, UTG and UTG+2.

Bet the turn? Check the turn but bet the river? Do some other obvious thing that the moron poster is too dumb to notice?

Vern · #2 07-05-2004, 07:57 PM

I think you played it fine. You got to see the river for the extra SB you raised with on the flop. I don't see betting the turn or river unless you think weaker hands will call you. I don't think they will so I am happy to get a cheap showdown with third pair.

Navers · #3 07-05-2004, 08:15 PM

why would you raise the flop if there's an overcard? with that many callers isn't it too risky that someone has a king? Sorry if there's an easy answer to this question, I'm just a newbie

detruncate · #4 07-05-2004, 09:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
why would you raise the flop if there's an overcard? with that many callers isn't it too risky that someone has a king? Sorry if there's an easy answer to this question, I'm just a newbie

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not a silly question. It seems counter-intuitive to push a pair when you're staring at an overcard. I raised for a few reasons.

1) People sometimes like to take a pop at you after you've raised pre-flop.

2) There's not yet sufficient reason to think that I'm behind. It's true that people enter the pot more often with a king than with most other cards, but there's still just 3 more of them amongst all the cards I haven't seen. If I'm 3-bet, I start to worry. Right now, I just remain aware of the possibility.

3) I'm hoping that BB will fold when faced with 2 bets cold.

4) My raise might get me past the turn without having to spend a BB if they check to me on the turn and I don't like how the board is shaping up. Like this time, for instance.

If you disagree with any of this, please don't hesitiate to argue the point.

Navers · #5 07-06-2004, 01:10 AM

thanks, I guess raising is the best option for your listed reasons. It's just hard to stare at that king knowing that if someone paired it up you're going to be in bad shape, that's all.

Surfbullet · #6 07-06-2004, 01:58 AM

It looks okay to me here... raising the flop worked quite well for you and is a good plan, but at a $1 full table it can be chip burning to raise a bet and a call with that overcard out there, and though you implied that your table image would be sufficient to get enough folds to make it worthwhile i don't think it would be profitable as your usual line.

I'm assuming (due to the nature of the question) that your hand was good(utg had A3 or A2?) but i dont see the turn or river being profitable places to put a bet in, so no, I don't believe you missed any bets. Nice hand.

Dan

detruncate · #7 07-06-2004, 03:52 AM

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks.

River: (8.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB
Main Pot: 8.25 BB, between Hero, UTG and UTG+2. > Pot won by Hero (8.25 BB).

Results in white below:
UTG shows 3d Ac (one pair, threes).
UTG+2 shows 5d 6d (high card, king).
Hero shows Jh Jc (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins 8.25 BB.

Zetack · #8 07-06-2004, 02:19 PM

Well I was going to reply before I read the results, but then curiousity got the better of me and I peaked, so consider this tainted if you will.

I bet that river. I hate that queen, but I still bet with position and two checks each from your opponents.

You can't really trust the turn checks, either of those guys could be going for the check raise...but if so they'd have bet the river. Once they display all that weakness on two successive streets I put in one more with my Jacks.

Both these guys are Pf limpers, UTG bet out on the flop, but that could mean anything, and utg+2 never had to call more than one at a time. You won't win this all the time, maybe not most of the time, but you'll win it a fair amount of the time.

If you didn't have position, if there were still players to act behind you, probably a different story.

I'm betting for value a lot more on the river than I used to and I have very good results with it--its amazing what people are in with.

--Zetack

Edit: I peaked because even thought I woulda bet the river, I kinda liked utg for a weak king.

sublime · #9 07-06-2004, 04:33 PM

Question:

You checked the turn thru, I imagine you were going to call a river bet which will cost you 1 BB.

The line of play should be bet the turn and fold to a c/r.

If these opponents are weak ass bitches then you at least get a showdown for nothing on the river. With this line of play you maximize your chances of winning the hand while also charging a hand for drawing to some long shot crap.