A post about the first two cards

[detruncate]

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Great post! Thanks for the insight from experience! Question: At what level do you think your pf advice becomes less valuable ie: 1/2?, 2/4?, 3/6?,...? Also, how applicable could your advice be for low limit live play? Thanks in advance!

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This is exactly the wrong way to think about it. It's not about "raise in LP because Greg said so," you should think about what he's trying to teach you.

The strength of your hand is dependent on the specific circumstances you find yourself in. This is too complicated to ever completely discuss in book form. Guidelines are designed to help you keep out of big trouble by giving you basic guidance on average plays. The discussion in SSH about how to evaluate your hand is much more helpful than the charts.

Greg is trying to help you see how situational this all is. You usually limp small pocket pairs in loose/passive pf games because you expect to be able to see the flop cheaply with lots of company -- since you'll most often have many opponents, your hand is not terribly likely to hold up UI when you're dealing with pp<5. However, when it's folded to you on the button, you know you're going to have at most 2 opponents + position + blind money to go after. All of a sudden things are very different, and a raise is often in order. Contrast this with being folded to in MP1, where a fold is often correct. What's the difference?

Why would you raise A8o when folded to in LP when everything tells you to stay away from Ax? What sort of situations would you be comfortable playing suited connectors/1-gaps? The point is that you should work on thinking about these things in context rather than simply following a chart. However good it is, it can only ever make basic assumptions re. what will most often be the case when you're dealt a particular hand -- its usefulness is therefore directly proportional to the degree to which the assumptions apply at that moment.

It's sort of like people asking what limits SSH is applicable to. If you understand the concepts it discusses, you'll be able to recognize when to apply them regardless of what limit you're playing.

There's a wide range of .5/1 games on the Party network. More to the point, the games change from hand to hand. Is it a shootout between 3 TAGs, or two maniacs and a LP-P? Huge difference. If you don't learn what makes a hand playable in context, you'll never achieve more than marginal success.

"The money is made post-flop" assumes a certain degree of pre-flop proficiency. Arguments like whether limping or raising AJo pf is better aren't very interesting due to the fact that there's not much to choose between them. You're giving up a lot, though, if you routinely play hands you should fold (or vice versa).

PF play is by far the easiest to learn. That doesn't mean it's easy. It also doesn't mean you shouldn't think about it. For most novice players, there's a lot of money to be made through improved pf play. This is because the mistakes are relatively large. Once you become more comfortable with the basics, there's much more money to be found post-flop. It also gets a whole lot harder.

Work on your fundamentals. Learn the theory. Start with pf play. And thank Greg for taking the time to help by following his example.

[Greg J]

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The point is that you should work on thinking about these things in context rather than simply following a chart.

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Yeah I totally agree here. Those charts are misleading, and in all honesty I'm not a huge fan of them.

[UncleSalty]

This is the thread of the week, IMHO. Nice job to all.

[Saint_D]

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when you are first in, the later you act the more prone you should be to raise. I’m not sure I’ve ever read this anywhere, but at this point it’s totally intuitive to me.

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SSH does say this (I just re-read it this week). However it doesn't make the point as clearly as you just did. Excellent advice all around. Keep up the good work.

[mscags]

Thanks for this post its really good and will certainly help me. I just have one question to ask you. I am in the process of moving up from .5-1$ at PP to 1$-2$ and having a little bit of trouble and I'm not sure If I'm having trouble or just taking some bad beats, but anyway, what kind of hands should I open for a raise with in early position of those games? I know in the lower limits you can open with a few weaker hands like JKs and 99, but what is appropriate for the higher limit? Are hands Like KQ AQ ok? I feel like lately every time I raise with an AQ,KQ, and similar hands someone who calls has me crushed. Thanks for your time and again great post [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[NAU_Player]

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This is the thread of the year, IMHO. Nice job to all.

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Fixed your post [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[UncleSalty]

Thanks man! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[detruncate]

Start with the obvious ones: TT-AA (often 99 too), AK(s), AQ(s), KQ(s), AJs (most people raise AJo too), KJs, ATs. Other hands can be raised situationally, but you won't go too far wrong if you restrict yourself to these for now. Be prepared to be flexible on the lower end of things if you find yourself in a really tough game (or better yet, find a new table). Read the pre-flop section of SSH to learn the basics of hand evaluation (high card strength, suitedness, connectedness), and what it means for you in practice.

You're right... you'll sometimes be dominated when 3-bet or called. With decent post-flop play, however, you should be able to avoid rampant chip-spewage. Hopefully. Or so I hear.

Much more often, it'll be you doing the dominating. Latex and leather is optional, but encouraged. And remember... the safe word is "fold".

[SoftcoreRevolt]

I really knew my preflop game was missing something. A horrible 1/2 downswing where the most horrific beats possible caused me to tighten up a bit, and weaken up preflop. I couldn't really figure out why my PFR was a bit lower lately, but this is why, I've neglected to open raise from the CO and Button as much as I normally would.

[kapw7]

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It’s folded to me on the CO with 44. Easy raise. Even if the blinds are loose, your positional advantage the rest of the hand will make you money. NEVER open limp from LP.

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For this specific example. What do you hope to achieve by raising with 44 against loose blinds? They are not going to fold enough times (possibly ever) to make this profitable. So with 44 you cannot play anything on the flop unless you hit your set. (What would you do even HU in a flop like K92 etc). You need to be a master of postflop play (if this makes sense against calling stations) to survive. So could this be a case of limping at LP (against loose blinds)?