64s in CO

27offsooot · #1 06-17-2005, 01:50 AM

The two MPs were good. The others sucked, were unknown, or i don't remember. I'm pretty sure UTG+1 sucked though.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB folds.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets, MP3 folds, Hero ?

brick · #2 06-17-2005, 01:56 AM

folds.

DawnToDusk · #3 06-17-2005, 02:08 AM

Fold. I see only two outs for you in my mind that will produce a winning hand IF either of the 4 other players that went to the turn with you don't have the flush or straight. Those two outs would have to be the other 6s. And having a two outer you need 22-to-1 pot odds.

I wouldn't of called with 46c either. Its a speculative hand that needs tons of volume to make it worthwhile for a call. I think that was your overall mistake.

I probably play a speculative hand like this once or twice a month when I have position and there is tons of volume preflop.

damaniac · #4 06-17-2005, 02:18 AM

The only thing to think about preflop is that two of the three limpers are pretty good. That hurts your implied odds (to say nothing of making it more difficult when you flop a more marginal hand) on this highly speculative hand. Against 3 below average limpers or when at least two are too loose, I'd call. But against decent opposition I'd think about folding.

I think I fold the turn, there's a good chance I'm drawing dead already and if not many of my outs may be tained (4th heart) or chopping, especially if one of the other players stays in. And I may get check-raised. I guess if SB and UTG are never check-raising (and often coming along with an incredibly crappy hand that is no threat to you) you can call.

27offsooot · #5 06-17-2005, 02:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Fold. I see only two outs for you in my mind that will produce a winning hand IF either of the 4 other players that went to the turn with you don't have the flush or straight. Those two outs would have to be the other 6s. And having a two outer you need 22-to-1 pot odds.

I wouldn't of called with 46c either. Its a speculative hand that needs tons of volume to make it worthwhile for a call. I think that was your overall mistake.

I probably play a speculative hand like this once or twice a month when I have position and there is tons of volume preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the response. I didn't want this to focus on PF, but I think u're wrong. This is pretty easy call to me. Button was passive which i neglected to mention, but with three limpers, at a generally passive table, 64s is more than enough in the CO. I know the two MPs are decent and may not pay me off, but I still like this hand MW and in position.

I do have an OESD on the turn, neither of the two sixes left are hearts. There's another reason why i think calling is a big mistake though. The two MPs were decent, so try to put MP2 on a hand.

DawnToDusk · #6 06-17-2005, 02:30 AM

No problem. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] We are all here to learn and wouldn't without posting. Sorry. Didn't know you didn't want to focus on PF, but with that being said, I just want to add one more thing to the PF discussion.

Wouldn't you want weaker players to be in with you rather than two good players? Your implied odds just seem to be much bigger when you make a hand against four weak players. Thats the only reason I would call this hand in the CO when the table is passive. If there were four weak players in with me. If it was aggressive I would definately pass, looking at calling at least a raised pot on the flop.

As for trying to put MP2 on a hand I would have to say 77 is a possibility. If you mean he is a good player (like we are [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]) I think he would of came out betting with his set to protect his hand. If he is a good player in the sense that he watches TV, has played limit at a B&M a couple of times and has a decent idea of the game, maybe he checked the flop in hopes of getting to CR on the turn, but got scared of the flush and is trying to force people out. Maybe to much thinking going on there, but I just don't know enough about your foe right now. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] My next bet would be to place him on a medium sized flush. Maybe he is betting it to try to force out one card flushes that would beat his.

What did he have?

27offsooot · #7 06-17-2005, 02:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
No problem. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] We are all here to learn and wouldn't without posting. Sorry. Didn't know you didn't want to focus on PF, but with that being said, I just want to add one more thing to the PF discussion.

Wouldn't you want weaker players to be in with you rather than two good players? Your implied odds just seem to be much bigger when you make a hand against four weak players. Thats the only reason I would call this hand in the CO when the table is passive. If there were four weak players in with me. If it was aggressive I would definately pass, looking at calling at least a raised pot on the flop.

As for trying to put MP2 on a hand I would have to say 77 is a possibility. If you mean he is a good player (like we are [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]) I think he would of came out betting with his set to protect his hand. If he is a good player in the sense that he watches TV, has played limit at a B&M a couple of times and has a decent idea of the game, maybe he checked the flop in hopes of getting to CR on the turn, but got scared of the flush and is trying to force people out. Maybe to much thinking going on there, but I just don't know enough about your foe right now. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] My next bet would be to place him on a medium sized flush. Maybe he is betting it to try to force out one card flushes that would beat his.

What did he have?

[/ QUOTE ]

PF is actually probably close. But I like to get myself into these marginal situations, so I play it. 3 limpers and a passive button, even with two decent limpers, and I'm playing a lot in the CO. And raising a lot too. Playing hands is fun. As far as profitability, I think that 64s is profitable for most of us in this situation, but I have no way to really evaluate this.

As for MP, my point was that there is almost no way that he has a pair here as he likely would be raising any of them. That leaves flush draws/ sets. I think that a flush draw, specifically Axs is the most likely hand here given that he is limping in MP. He could have something like J10s, but i doubt he's playing many other suited hands here.

DawnToDusk · #8 06-17-2005, 02:49 AM

Sounds like legit reasoning to me. Did you get to see how the hand unfolded?

27offsooot · #9 06-17-2005, 02:51 AM

Yeah, villain had A2s.

chesspain · #10 06-17-2005, 02:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't want this to focus on PF, but I think u're wrong. This is pretty easy [turn] call to me. Button was passive which i neglected to mention, but with three limpers, at a generally passive table, 64s is more than enough in the CO. I know the two MPs are decent and may not pay me off, but I still like this hand MW and in position.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never mind the turn decision. Does anyone else besides for me not like the flop call?