I was told I wass playing junk. What do you think?

JapaneseSandman · #1 02-16-2005, 11:42 AM

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. MP2 posts a blind of $1.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, MP2 (poster) checks, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, MP2 folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (17.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 26.50 BB

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. MP2 posts a blind of $1.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, MP2 (poster) checks, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, MP2 folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (17.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 26.50 BB

Results in white below: 
BB has 2c 5d (two pair, fives and twos).
UTG+1 has Ks 2h (two pair, kings and twos).
Hero has Js Ts (straight, king high).
MP3 doesn't show.
Outcome: Hero wins 26.50 BB.

bigmac366 · #2 02-16-2005, 11:44 AM

not nearly as junky as the hands they showed down. but seriously.....flop good, turn baaaaaaad. just call.

Wario · #3 02-16-2005, 11:54 AM

Preflop is good, JTs isn't junk.

Flop good.

Turn bad. You no longer have an equity edge so you want to see the turn as cheaply as possible. Just call and then call again if reraised.

River of course is fine.

You'll get better replies if you don't include the results of the hand.

jskills · #4 02-16-2005, 11:56 AM

You were not playing junk at all. People were likely reacting to you getting 2 running cards to make your straight.

So you 3-bet the turn since you had a flush draw + gutshot and you knew 2 villans were in it till the end?

easypete · #5 02-16-2005, 11:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
not nearly as junky as the hands they showed down. but seriously.....flop good, turn baaaaaaad. just call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is the turn bad?

any Q is good... any spade is good. That's 12 outs. You are going to win 26% of the time here. If all 3 players see the turn capped... it's still +EV (although very slightly). Hmm... says 4 players, but only see 3. hmmmmm.... vs 3 opponents, capping slightly +EV. vs 2 opponents calling good.

and... 52o... garbage???? that's heresy!!! 52o is a group 1 hand.

bigmac366 · #6 02-16-2005, 12:02 PM

you make an excellent point pete....i'll admit i didnt put as much thought into it as you did. i wouldve liked the raise if it had been a Q on the turn, it just didnt seem like getting an additional 4 outs helps much when you no longer have any overcard outs.

Greg J · #7 02-16-2005, 12:05 PM

It was very rude of MP3 not to show his hand. It was the least he could have done after folding preflop. (Obviously this is a converter bug [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])

Like the other guys have told you, you should just cold call the turn. I can understand you wanting to raise it for a couple of reasons. First you picked up an additional draw -- the gutshot. Second, most of the time, esp in a pot this big, you want to raise or fold. Folding is obviously out, so your inclination as an aggressive player is to want to raise. Still, you are not getting equity here to do that. The only example I can think of 3 betting the turn with a draw is if you have a true straight flush draw (JTKQ all the same suit) and even then that's only if you have 3+ opponents, and even then it's close. I will say that the 3 bet on the turn is not a huge mistake though, but a fairly minor one.

Nice river. Overall, pretty good hand. JTs is a good hand. Preflp limp is standard.

Oh, are you from Japan by chance?

Amd welcome to the boards! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

bear187 · #8 02-16-2005, 12:06 PM

When you have a monster draw like this that no one is folding to you want to build the pot so the 1/4 times you hit, you hit for the maximum. Nice hands.

yecul · #9 02-16-2005, 12:06 PM

Overaggressive on the turn, but other than that NH. I don't see why they thought your hand was junky, especially compared with what they showed. Maybe they thought you were commenting on your draw aggression.

Would it be wrong to raise pf?

Wario · #10 02-16-2005, 12:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
not nearly as junky as the hands they showed down. but seriously.....flop good, turn baaaaaaad. just call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is the turn bad?

any Q is good... any spade is good. That's 12 outs. You are going to win 26% of the time here. If all 3 players see the turn capped... it's still +EV (although very slightly). Hmm... says 4 players, but only see 3. hmmmmm.... vs 3 opponents, capping slightly +EV. vs 2 opponents calling good.

and... 52o... garbage???? that's heresy!!! 52o is a group 1 hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are only two opponents on the turn so with pot equity of 26% raising is -EV right?

Also 3-betting has a decent chance of knocking out BB, which is bad.

Hero likely doesn't have all clean outs because someone could have a set or a flush could boat up two pair or something.

EDIT: OK converter error MP3 is in there somewhere. But it's very unlikely he's going to call 3 bets cold on the turn.