AJo, UTG. suggestions?

[cbfair]

TGC 1/2 10 handed
Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero Calls, MP2 Raises, SB Calls, BB Calls, Hero Calls (8 SB)

Flop:

J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB Checks, BB Checks, Hero Bets, MP2 Calls, SB Calls, BB Calls (6 BB)

Turn:
K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB Checks, BB Checks, Hero Bets, MP2 Raises, SB Folds, BB Calls, Hero Calls (12 BB)

River:

8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

BB Checks, Hero Checks, MP2 Bets, BB Calls, Hero Calls

Final Pot 14.5BB between BB, Hero and MP2

[nothumb]

Depending on the game this limp could be anywhere from marginal to gross to really bad. I do it sometimes but rarely.

Flop: Fine, bet out, hoping that the player to your left raises. He didn't? Bummer.

Turn: Tempting to check this. Have to call the raise. Even though you don't want to puss out over one overcard, it's hard to see you being ahead here.

River: Fold the river.

NT

[cbfair]

[ QUOTE ]
Depending on the game this limp could be anywhere from marginal to gross to really bad. I do it sometimes but rarely.

[/ QUOTE ]

The game was fairly loose, 5 to the flop frequently but not always.

I'm looking to bring my VP$IP down though, so I will definatly review more of these marginal/gross/really bad hands in EP.

thanks

[Shillx]

Limping with AJo UTG is certainly not 'really bad'. Raising probably has slightly more EV in most circumstances, but not much.

The Shill

[Fiddler]

If you don't have trouble folding after having raised I think you should raise pre-flop. Fold the river. Why did you call? MP2 raised the turn when the king came and BB cold-called. On the river MP bets and BB still calls, you won't beat both of them often enough with MPTK.

[Ajax410]

This is an auto-raise for me pre-flop. Calling might not be hugely -EV, but AJo is a hand you get a lot, and you want to avoid any -EV move in a situation you deal with a lot.

Basically, at a "normal" passive table, I raise with AJo, but never call two cold.

Alex

[aron]

I always raise hands like AJ preflop.
With a hand like that youre hoping for top pair with a nice kicker. Raising will hopefully knock some dubious hands out so you don't have to lose to some random combination of cards from LP or BB.

[Ajax410]

I'm glad you're raising AJo preflop - but I wonder about your logic.

You are not raising to knock out the "dubious" 57o in MP. You are raising because, right now, you probably have the best hand (and if you don't...as in there's a pocket pair out there, you probably have pot equity greater than the number of callers), and by raising, you're making money.

Your logic makes no sense because we WANT the "dubious" hands to call us. In order to make money, we NEED worse hands to call us. So, if you're raising AJo, good for you, but you need to understand why it is the correct move in order to take the next step as a player.

Alex

[aron]

Okay, I agree to that to some extent. But am i compleatly wrong to say that you wouldnt like a 10 handed pot if you hold cards like AJ o? Please correct me if I'm wrong cause otherwise I have to contemplate virtually everything about my pre-flop play.
And thanks Ajax for your flushdraw post [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[ig0r]

Wrong. If you went to the flop ten-handed with AJo, your pot equity is going to be greater than the 10% that it would be with slightly crappier cards, especially at a loose table; the more cards of lower quality that call you, the better off you are.