Flirting with disaster or good play?

[Rockfish]

Typical 0.50/1 Party Poker 8-handed.

I'm in the cutoff with T9 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img].

All fold to me and I just call.

Button calls, SB folds, BB checks.

Three handed to the flop of 8 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] .

BB checks I bet out, button calls, BB calls.

Turn brings the 9 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] .

BB checks, I check, button bets, BB folds, I raise, button calls.

River brings the T [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] .

I bet out, button calls.

Here are my thoughts.

First on the open limp in the cutoff, in general in this game the blinds defend tenaciously if you raise in steal position. This is a playable hand but if I don't hit just right and overcards flop I'm going to give it up so I think calling is a better play.

On the flop I've got an open-ended straight draw and a backdoor to diamonds. The BB would have bet out if he had hit the flop and I have no idea what the button has but I can't see checking here. If I thought the button would bet I might have gone for a check raise to get the free turn card and to show some aggression. The button would call with more hands than he would bet so I didn't think that would work.

On the turn I no longer have the backdoor diamonds but I have a pair and now a draw to a one card straight. I would not have raised had the BB called, and had the button re-raised I would have been out of there. The button had been playing way too many hands and would be in there with top, bottom or middle pair, any ace and the usual gamut of weird hands that you see at 0.5/1.

On the river I can't put the button on a 7 or a Q nor can I put him on spades necessarily because it got there by the backdoor (you never really know though, do you?) and again bet out thinking that if raised I'm gone.

Good play or flirting with disaster?

Rockfish

[Homer]

Preflop - I don't like your limp from the cutoff unless the blinds defend 100% of the time and the button is likely to coldcall. Even if the blinds usually defend, raising will typically buy you the button which gives you the option of betting or checking behind on the flop. You will have a much better chance of taking it down with a bet on the flop if you raise preflop. By the way, I'd pretty much bet any flop in this situation. If the flop comes with big cards hopefully you can bluff them out (since you raised preflop you must have big cards [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]) and if it comes with a T or 9 you'll actually have a hand. All that being said, if you know for sure that the button and blinds will call two bets, then limping is acceptable.

Flop - Good bet. Had you raised preflop you may have taken it down right here, as you probably would have been heads-up against the BB, who will often fold on a ragged flop such as this.

Turn - Note that if a blank came on the turn you would have been able to take a free card had you raised preflop, whereas now you must check and hope that the button doesn't bet. However, in this case the turn card helped you, so you may want to bet anyway. The flop was pretty ragged, though, so I'm thinking the button probably has a Jack. I don't like checkraising because the button could easily three-bet you, in which case you must call because you have a bunch of outs. I would simply check-call here.

River - Whether you should check-fold, check-call or bet depends on the tendencies of your opponent. See my comments on your comments, below.

Comments on your comments - You can't fold to a reraise by the button on the turn. You have too many outs. Note that you shouldn't bet the river just because you have the best hand. The question is whether you will have the best hand when you are called. Against a tight player you probably will not have the best hand when called, so you should check-call. Against overly aggressive players you should often check-call because they will bet the hands they would have called with, plus some bluffs. Against loose-passive players you should typically bet since they will call with many worse hands that they would not bet when checked to.

-- Homer

[Bob T.]

Preflop. I hate the open limp with a real hand on the cutoff. At least you thought about it, and have a reason behind your play. Still I wouldn't do it.

Flop. You made a bet here, I don't see any other play as being reasonable.

Turn. With a pair, and a one card outside straight, I don't see why you are checking. I would bet again. I don't think that if it comes back to you bet and raised, that you have a fold here either. I would call in that case. I don't see what can be gained here by checking, a lot of microlimit players are going to see the turn, if they see the flop, and this is your first real chance to win this pot, you improved so that you now have something to showdown, and you decide that you are going to risk a free card instead. After checking, the checkraise has me baffled also, do you think that he would now bet with no values whatsoever, and is going to lay down his hand. Your betting sequence is unusual enough that he will now call you down just to find out what you have.

River, the spades got there, the straight got there, and you have two pair. I think that the bet is a good idea, if you can fold to a raise, because all of the hands that you beat are not going to bet the river here, and a lot of those hands will call especially at this limit.

I think preflop, and on the turn you were flirting with disaster, I think the flop, and the river you played well.

[Rockfish]

Thank you both for taking the time to critique my play. I wrote a lengthy response to Homer and it appears that I blew it away rather than posting it. Bummer.

Bottom line is I thought I played it brilliantly at the time and I'm sure glad I posted this because it looks like I butchered yet another hand.

I did put some thought into the pre-flop play. For example, a pre-flop open raise from the cutoff was consistently getting cold calls from the button and at least one of the blinds and usually both of them. The limp was designed to put them on their guard (open limping in late position with a big pair is a play we've all seen), and to give me a chance to let them make a mistake by calling bets later in the hand with insufficient pot odds should I hit my hand (a la HPFAP21 "Playing in Loose Games).

I clearly wasn't thinking about all the important factors that went into playing the turn. Given the scariness of the board I figured that if someone raised the turn I would have been in deep doo doo and that I should get out. Check and call gives the option of seeing the river for one bet with lots of outs.

Of course you were right Homer. The opposition had a weak Jack.

I've been having some good results of late and would like to believe it's skill. I've apparently been lucky as well.

Thanks again guys,

Rockfish

[Bob T.]

Bottom line is I thought I played it brilliantly at the time and I'm sure glad I posted this because it looks like I butchered yet another hand.


That is why it is helpful to post the hands that we like how we played, as well as the ones we didn't like. The ones that we know we messed up, we can probably fix ourselves with a little work, but the ones that we think we did ok, but didn't, are going to take a lot longer to fix if we don't have help.

I've been having some good results of late and would like to believe it's skill. I've apparently been lucky as well.


Having both is helpful [img]/forums/images/icons/smirk.gif[/img] .

[Allan]

Bob and Homer have provided good responses, once again. I wanted to point out one other thing though:

If I thought the button would bet I might have gone for a check raise to get the free turn card and to show some aggression. The button would call with more hands than he would bet so I didn't think that would work.

Trying to get a free card is not a reason to checkraise. While it may work in some low limit games, the more you start to encounter tougher opponents the more this won't work.

Allan

[Louie Landale]

On the turn you pretty obviously have the best hand since Button didn't raise on the flop. Did you know he was going to bet when you check-raised, or was this a "I don't know what to do" check? I'd have bet out on the turn.

On the end ... Who knows. I'd bet if he'll call with more hands than he'd bet, but check if [1] there is some good reasonable chance he'll bluff (he's aggressive, you call), or [2] if there is no chance he'll bluff (you fold).

- Louie

[Rockfish]

OK I've made the big time. Louie Landale has critiqued my play.

I've been reading your posts for a long time and have much respect for your insight. Thanks for responding.

In fact on the turn I did not have the best hand as the button had a weak Jack. I could not have known that at the time and coupled with my draw I at least felt like I might have the best hand.

The turn was a disaster and the check was an "I don't know what to do" check. When the BB folded I was hit with the inspiration of check-raising.

I think betting out on the flop and then on the river were the two things I did right here. Not raising pre-flop and check-raising the turn were the two mistakes.

Luck is good.

Rockfish