Big Blind Play

[Rockfish]

Poker Tracker tells me my Big Blind play sucks.

0.5/1 Party Poker

I'm the big blind with K [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] , 9 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] .

Three limpers to a seemingly reasonable player in MP who raises.

Next player calls.

Button and SB fold, I call.

Three limpers call.

Flop comes 5 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] , 4 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] , K [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img].

I bet out, all call.

Turn comes J [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] .

All check to my right who bets, I raise.

One cold-caller, original bettor calls, pre-flop raiser is out of the hand here.

River comes J [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] .

I bet, turn bettor calls.

Comments?

Rockfish

[mrbaseball]

Seems like a reasonable way to play this hand. I would have probably lead out on the turn rather than the checkraise. You have potential kicker problems. No one with their actions is representing much more of a hand than you have. I don't like that the checkraise had not only the bettor but also a limper call though.

Don't let big blind results from poker tracker get you down. You are supposed to lose money there I think. I sure do anyway [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] And I beat the lower limits (1/2 - 5/10) very regularly so I don't worry too much about that big red number in the blind play because my overall result is very good.

[Homer]

What statistic in PokerTracker did you lose to determine that your BB play sucks? I asked a question on the Theory page a few weeks ago regarding how much one should lose per hand from the blinds because I was trying to determine the same thing. Alas, no one answered, and I still have no idea if my play from the blinds is good or not.

Preflop - I think 11:1 is enough to call with K9s.

Flop - What would you have done had MP raised? Folded right there or taken one off and folded on the turn? There are a lot of things you can do here. You can check-fold (which is what you should often do against a reasonable player who raises preflop after many limpers), bet out and fold to a raise, or try to checkraise to clear the field and get it heads-up with MP. I wouldn't expect a checkraise to get the hand heads-up on a board of this texture. I would want a more ragged board before I would checkraise. Betting out and folding to a raise has merit because there will likely be a caller or two between you and MP, so a raise from MP will have greater meaning than if it were heads-up. I like check-folding best. There are a lot of players, there was a strong preflop raisor who could easily have you outkicked, the board has straight/flush potential, and you are out of position.

To summarize, on the flop I like these plays in order of preference:

1) Check-fold
2) Bet and fold to a raise from MP
3) Check-raise MP

Understand that when you are playing a hand like Kxs or Axs from the BB after a legitimate raise preflop, you are playing it primarily for its flush value. It is easy to get trapped in awkward situations as you did here when you make top-pair. Often, you should simply check-fold. Pick select times to take on the PFR (such as when the board is ragged).

Turn - This sucks. What is this player coming alive with all of a sudden? If he had a monster surely he would checkraise the turn, as his position relative to you is perfect for doing so. It seems more likely that he has a raggedy two-pair or something like that, since he bet right out. You could have anywhere from 0-5 outs, depending on what he is betting with (and what the players yet to act have). It seems likely that your outs are tainted. The 9d could make someone a flush. You may already be outkicked by a better K so your two K outs could be no good. It seems that your only outs that are reasonably certain to be good are the two remaining 9's, and even those won't be good once in a while if someone has a slowplayed set. Additionally, there are many players yet to act behind you who could easily be getting ready to raise. If they do so your odds will be ruined.

If all your outs are good and there is no chance of a raise behind you then you have a call, but even then it is a reasonably close decision. With the possibility of your outs not being good and having to pay multiple bets to see the river, I think you should fold. I'd like to think I would fold, but I wouldn't be surprised if I called.

River - I would have checked behind. The J on the turn almost certainly helped your opponent (either that or he was slowplaying on the flop...this doesn't seem likely though since he only called your turn raise). Since he only called on the river, it seems that he must have a counterfeited two-pair, either K4 or K5.

-- Homer

[Homer]

Wait a minute, did you checkraise the turn? I missed that. If so, I don't like it. I think you should continue betting here.

-- Homer

[Rockfish]

I was leading out on the turn a lot, not that anybody might have noticed, and was thinking that if I bet, the game is passive enough that I won't know where I stand. Most players were calling flop bets. If I check and it's checked through and a blank hits (there are no real blanks at 0.5/1 are there?) I can bet the river knowing my hand is probably good. On the other hand depending on where a bet comes from I might learn something. If it's from early position they are more likely to have a real hand, and if it comes after everyone checks, maybe it's a steal on the turn, in which case I raise to shut out the rest of the field.

Definitely if there's a bet and a call in front of me I have more to think about.

Rockfish

[Rockfish]

Hi Homer;

I have to go unfortunately so I don't have time to do your post justice.

I just downloaded it last night and got my recent histories into it before going to be. I looked at a summary of my play and saw a big red number next to BB. That's all. I am not even really familiar with all the views yet, although I don't know how you can play without the information you get from this program. It goes into my pantheon of great computer programs: Endnote, EZPics and now PokerTracker. Now you know a little bit about me.

I thought I overplayed the hand myself. FPS perhaps.

This is one of those situations that you have to look at clealy and recognize that even though you hit the flop you can't like it that much. Kicker problems, plus the straight and flush combination make it ugly. My only justification for the check raise was to get the drawing hands out and hope my K was good.

Sorry, I've got to go.

Rockfish

[Rockfish]

K [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img]

My read of a K was right, but I was bitten by the inevitable kicker trouble.

Rockfish

[AceHigh]

"Poker Tracker tells me my Big Blind play sucks."

K9s is a marginal hand, with fewer players in the hand you should probably fold preflop. If you don't play well from the BB, post flop.

My plan for this hand would be to flop a flush draw, 2 pair or better or top pair of 9's. Otherwise fold. That should keep you out of trouble. A pair of Kings is trouble unless your opponents are very loose.

[elysium]

hi rock
fold pre-flop; fold to the raise.

[Rockfish]

Would you care to elaborate in your inimitable style?

Pre-flop I was pretty sure that the three limpers would call. That's me calling one more bet with nine on the table playing 5-handed after the flop. I realize I'm out of position, but the hand is suited (I know, I know...).

I don't think calling pre-flop after the raise expecting multiple callers is a bad play, but I do think continuing with the hand the way I did after the flop was out of line.

Comments?

Rockfish