Live 30/60 against 2+2er

[bicyclekick]

lol at you for thikning he meant kjs

Wait, let me get this straight. UTG said he had an ace? You said "who knows"...erm...look at the hand history DUH!!! (this is a joke, i am fully aware this was live)

HAHAHHAHAAHAAA!!!

I dont know how you think someone put you on a hand that early.....strange. Explain....


As is, I think the hand was played fine.



Tex

[ActionBob]

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I think he means JJ-KK not the KsJs.

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Yeah thats what I thought too. KJs would be written like this after all.

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Ahhhhh. Kinda funny now if this is the case. KJs would generally be used for King-Jack suited. And something like JsKs would be used for specifically King-Jack of spades. If one wanted to indicated Jacks thru Kings normally JJ-KK would be used. Thats where I found the original post amusing [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

-ActionBob

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My bad, I have made this mistake before and probably will again. I think it was the twinkle.

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I dont know how you think someone put you on a hand that early.....strange. Explain....

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Because he bet into me.

I was curious why you were specific in KsJs, and not just KsXs....And why would his leading into you make you think he thought you held those precise cards?

[4thstreetpete]

This is a hand that I would absolutely raise on the flop. I would be cautious of a tight player calling 3 bets cold preflop so in this situation I do not want the him to see the turn cheaply. This would be a good spot to raise and get this hand HU.
Plus if you wait till the turn to pop it, UTG may not pay you off on turn and river if he does not have an A and will only call you if he beats you. I think overall it's a little more deceptive to raise on flop and get him to pay you off in later streets.
With a late position caller in this situation I think it's always best to get this hand HU.

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I meant pocket Js and pocket Ks

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What do you think a tight button cold calls 3 with?

I thought AK, JJ, QQ. After that maybe AQ or TT. I think he folds AJ and 99 and below.

Yes I'm in trouble if he catches a two outter but he doesn't have odds and in a previous hand the board was 249J and he had AQ, 3 handed to flop and one of the guy asked if he would have bet the turn would he (tightie) have called (Q came on river) and he said no because he didn't care for 6 outs in that size pot.

To take it one step further, say UTG checks with his ace, I still get same amount if button calls (likely if he calls flop) and UTG does too.

I think the button folds QQ, JJ, TT if I raise on flop. I think he would probably call 2 cold with AK and AQ and probably fold AJ.

So by not raising the flop, yes I agree with you that UTG (2+2er) would fold to the turn raise without an A but I think he has an A here probably 90-95%. BUT, by not raising and letting button call the only hands I think he would AK, AQ, AJ, we can make button's decision hard on the turn with a raise from UTG (2+2ers) bet, or in turn if UTG checks turn we make it hard for UTG to find a call with anything less than an A when button either calls or raises my turn bet.

The button wouldn't even have odds to call for a 2 outter if he has TT-QQ and he knows this.

[skp]

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I think UTG put me on Js-Ks and want to bet his AQ, AJ, AT. I felt certain he had an A and felt I had the pockets above.

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Poker is about reading hands and perhaps more importantly, reading minds. With respect, your thinking here shows some failings when it comes to reading minds. To be specific, why would UTG want to bet his Ace hand if he felt that you had JJ,QQ, or KK? If he felt that you had any of those hands, he would let you bet and then checkraise your ass.

Of course, he may want to bet out based on other reasons but he is not betting out because he felt that you had KK-JJ b/c after 3 betting preflop, it's a near cinch that you would (and should) bet the flop even if you only held JJ.

Also, I think it's dangerous to "feel certain" that the other guy had an ace when he bet the flop. Reading hands is an exercise that generally occurs by synthesizing several factors over multiple streets. Early on, an action may represent several possible hands. Then, as the play develops, you can rule out certain possible holdings by looking back and analyzing your opponent's play throughout the hand.