Why do they hate us?

[wh1t3bread]

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Yeah, the point i was making is that there seems to be a lot of glossing over of Americas past to suit the patriotic vision of america.


[/ QUOTE ]

Who's patriotic vision of America? I assume that you mean Americans own patriotic vision of America? I guess I can understand the point that you were trying to make, but where do you get this information? Just your personal observation?

I'm not convinced in how much Americans gloss over their own past to suit the patriotic vision of America? The decimation of the Native Americans, the Trail of Tears, the Internment of Japanese-American citizens during WW2, Slavery, Racism, Abu-Ghraib(recent example). I can go on and on.

For many years some of these things were intentially left out of history books and such. But now these things are routinely taught to American children. They routinely make the news. I don't think we "gloss" over our own past. In fact I think we do the opposite and try to learn from it.

Is the US still making mistakes though? You bet. Is every other country still making mistakes? You bet.

[US Conservative]

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Those that hate us do so out of envy. They want what we have, and they want us to do what they want us to do.

Envy of what we have, and greed for what we have.

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Exactly. Also, conservative values (historically typified by America) are under attack throughout the world. Furthermore the liberal media makes the problem even worse.

[BadgerAle]

quote- "Who's patriotic vision of America? I assume that you mean Americans own patriotic vision of America? I guess I can understand the point that you were trying to make, but where do you get this information? Just your personal observation?"

Yeah, just an observation I make from american media. I am not really qualified but its not really something i can research factually.

For what it's worth i am not as anti-american as my posts might suggest- I am very grateful that the worlds only superpower is a democratic country that shares most of the same ideas as us. I think we would be in sh-t if it didn't exist. Having said that i don't think the US is the best model for democracy and i wonder how much self imposed propaganda goes on inwardly and outwardly. The question of the OP leads me to be negative.

[ptmusic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Those that hate us do so out of envy. They want what we have, and they want us to do what they want us to do.

Envy of what we have, and greed for what we have.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. Also, conservative values (historically typified by America) are under attack throughout the world. Furthermore the liberal media makes the problem even worse.

[/ QUOTE ]

The conservative media ain't helping.

-ptmusic

[MMMMMM]

bin-Laden calls it all Muslims' "duty" to kill Americans until they leave "Arab lands" ("Arab Lands" meaning more than merely Saudi Arabia).

Abu Masab al-Zarqawi, the beheading chieftain of al-Qaeda in Iraq, lists 7 religious reasons to condemn democracy.

The London leader of al-Mahajiroun speaks of a Muslim Army "liberating" other lands (England, etc.); and the Muslim murderer of the Dutch playwright Theo Van Gogh says that he killed him purely for religious reasons and would definitely do it again (see following post for interview with the murderer of Theo Van Gogh).

Now: granted, some actions or policies of the US may well have exacerbated resentment in the Middle East, BUT...the following quotes show that those who claim that that is ALL there is to it are flat-out wrong. The religious component is very strong and is sufficient (in the eyes of many fanatics and terrorists) as a stand-alone basis for hatred and for jihad.

All you have to do is PAY ATTENTION to what the jihadists are SAYING. They are TELLING US that the religious component is extremely strong in their jihadist desires, plans, and attacks.

"What do the terrorists want?
Larry Elder (archive)

July 14, 2005

" . . . There is no terrorist threat. There is no terrorist threat."
-- Filmmaker Michael Moore, Sept. 26, 2003.

Tell that to London.

Four explosions, perhaps set by home-grown terrorists, targeted that city's transportation system. The current death toll stands at 52, with more than 700 people injured. The train bombings in Madrid on March 11, 2004, killed 191. Three days later, Spaniards voted out the pro-war government and voted in the anti-war Socialists. The incoming prime minister vowed to promptly pull out Spanish troops from Iraq. Spain's reward? On April 2, 2004, Spanish authorities found a 22-pound bomb on a railway track between Madrid and Seville. And, later that year, in October, Spanish authorities foiled a plot to blow up their National Court, Spain's center for prosecuting terrorists. So much for Osama bin Laden's "offer," made a month after the Madrid train bombings, for a "truce" to any European country that stops "attacking Muslims" before a three-month deadline.

After the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on American soil, many asked, "Why do they hate us?" Now, after London, many again ask, "What do the terrorists want?" How can one "solve" the problem of Islamic extremism?

Osama bin Laden, in 1998, issued the following "fatwa," or religious edict: " . . . The killing of Americans and their civilian and military allies is a religious duty for each and every Muslim to be carried out in whichever country they are until Al Aqsa mosque has been liberated from their grasp and until their armies have left Muslim lands [emphasis added]." So, Islamic fascists demand that "infidels" leave "Muslim lands." But define "Muslim lands." Arabs, after all, dominated Europe from the 8th-century AD until 1492 AD, occupying lands as far west as Spain and modern-day France.

"One day the black flag of Islam will be flying over Downing Street," said Anjem Choudray, a spokesperson for Al-Muhajiroun ("the immigrants"), described by the Jerusalem Post's Ori Golan as a radical Islamic organization based in Britain. In calling for jihad, Choudray says, "Lands will not be liberated by individuals, but by an army. Eventually there'll have to be a Muslim army. It's just a matter of time before it happens."

The Wall Street Journal's reporters Ian Johnson and John Carreyrou recently pointed out that Muslim extremists define Arab lands to include Europe. "Fatwas," they write, "are traditionally only valid in the Islamic world, so [Ayatollah] Khomeini's [1989] fatwa implied something profound: Europe was part of the Islamic world [emphasis added]. It was a revolutionary change that now is accepted by many Islamic theologians and thinkers." Europe was part of the Islamic world?

Migration to Europe, with no intention of assimilation, according to Robert S. Leiken, a nonresident fellow at the Brookings Institution, serves as a tactic for Muslim reconquest: "In Islamic mythology, migration is archetypically linked to conquest. Facing persecution in idolatrous Mecca, in AD 622 the Prophet Muhammad pronounced an anathema on the city's leaders and took his followers to Medina. From there, he built an army that conquered Mecca in AD 630, establishing Muslim rule. . . . Europe could even be viewed as a kind of Medina, where troops are recruited for the reconquest of the holy land, starting with Iraq."

How can one "solve" the problem of Islamic extremism?

The problem is this: to Islamic extremism, democracy is toxic. Al Qaeda-affiliated Abu Musab al Zarqawi, just before the January Iraqi elections, gave a speech in which he listed seven reasons to condemn democracy: Democracy requires obedience to man, not Allah; democracy allows freedom of religion, even to convert from Islam to another religion; under democracy, the people, rather than Allah, rule and pass judgment; democracy's freedom of expression would allow condemnation of Allah; separation between religion and state calls for secularism, totally inconsistent with Islam; democracy's freedom of association would allow one to join an unacceptable party; and finally, that majority rule is "totally wrong and void because truth according to Islam is that which is in accordance with the Koran and the Sunna [i.e., the tradition of the Prophet], whether its supporters are few or many."

In London, where one of the blasts went off near the Arab area -- Edgware -- The New York Times quoted a Lebanese resident, "This was a message to us. They want us to get out of here and go home." So Arabs living outside the Middle East are now legitimate targets?

What do they want?

Islamic extremists say they want America and her allies to leave "Arab lands." Islamic Sharia law says Muslims must present non-Muslims with the three choices from Sura 9:29 of the Koran: conversion, submission to Islamic rule with second-class status and a special tax called the jizya, or death.

For those of us who support freedom, minority rights, women's rights, religious freedom, rule of law, transparent government, and separation of religion and state -- they want mass suicide. Nothing less."

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/l...20050714.shtml

[MMMMMM]

From the BBC website:

"Van Gogh suspect confesses guilt

Bouyeri was arrested shortly after van Gogh's killing
The man charged with the murder of the controversial Dutch film-maker Theo van Gogh has confessed to the killing at his trial in Amsterdam.

Mohammed Bouyeri, 27, said he acted out of his religious beliefs and that he would do "exactly the same" if he were ever set free.

Prosecutors say Mr Bouyeri killed Mr Van Gogh in a ritualistic murder committed in the name of radical Islam.

The November 2004 murder shocked the Netherlands and raised ethnic tensions.

Mr Bouyeri, who has dual Dutch-Moroccan nationality, could face a life sentence if he is convicted.

"I take complete responsibility for my actions. I acted purely in the name of my religion," he told the court in Amsterdam.

"I can assure you that one day, should I be set free, I would do exactly the same, exactly the same," he added.

His lawyer told the court on Monday there would be no defence case put forward by Mr Bouyeri or on his behalf.

'Martyr' hopes

Mr Bouyeri is accused of shooting and stabbing Mr Van Gogh to death as he cycled along an Amsterdam street.

A note stuck to his body with a knife threatened the Somali-born Dutch MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who wrote the script for Mr Van Gogh's film Submission, about violence against women in Islamic society.

Mr Bouyeri was arrested following a shoot-out with police just minutes after Mr Van Gogh's killing.

The prosecution said Mr Bouyeri had hoped to die a "martyr" at the hands of the police.

The murder sparked a wave of revenge attacks on mosques and counter-attacks against Christian churches in the Netherlands. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4675421.stm