KK in MP - turn check?

Fiddler · #1 07-27-2005, 03:15 PM

Not much of a read on these guys since I've never seen them before but SB could be very aggro on the turn without much... although it might have been against a specific player that had left the table at this point. UTG hadn't made an impression either way.

Absolute Poker 2/4 Hold'em (5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, Button folds, SB 3-bets, UTG calls, Hero caps, SB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

Freecards for pocket pairs and aces where the A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] gets the best deal with a lot of outs but he is coming either way... and that is if there is an ace out to worry about since the flop looked a bit suspicious. But I don't know. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

BabyJesus · #2 07-27-2005, 03:44 PM

Looks good to me. Can't feel too great about SB check 3 betting on that board. Check behind looks good, get a free chance to hit your K and get bets out of a 6 (most likely SB), or frush.

obsidian · #3 07-27-2005, 03:49 PM

That looks fine. I think betting that turn would be horrible as the c/r by SB is either a 6 or flush draw. Definentely check the turn and bet or raise any spade or K river.

JrJordan · #4 07-27-2005, 04:33 PM

Hmm, tough one. UTG most likely has a mid PP or paired T, so any bets he puts in is a nice overlay for us and is drawing at best to 2 outs. Giving him a free card isn't a big deal but we do want to extract the max value. If we bet the turn and SB doesn't c/r, then I'm sure he's coming along for at least 1BB. If SB c/r's then more often than not he folds.

Which brings us to SB. Your read says he can be a liberal checkraiser here, which is especially scary considering his flop action too. His possible hands are a T with a high kicker, a 6, or a flush draw that's raising for value. It's difficult to tell whether his turn check is him going into call down mode with a T and your flop aggression, or an opportunity to c/r with his 6/flush vs. your likely overpair.

In the moment I bet it out, and call a checkraise. I'd most likely call the river UI due to the size of the pot alone and the fact that I have no reads on these guys. Wow, looks like I'm losing the max in this hand if I'm behind. Perhaps a turn check isn't all that bad...

baronzeus · #5 07-27-2005, 04:36 PM

Id say you're getting C/Red here 95% of the time, and you still have a good # of outs.

JrJordan · #6 07-27-2005, 04:37 PM

Yeah, I'm already changing my mind on this one.

Redd · #7 07-27-2005, 04:46 PM

If we check the turn behind, do you call a river brick if the action goes:

1) Bet-call?
2) Bet-fold?

obsidian · #8 07-27-2005, 04:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If we check the turn behind, do you call a river brick if the action goes:

1) Bet-call?
2) Bet-fold?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yea, I think that is the real question of this hand. I have a hard time putting SB on a hand I beat but without reads I would like to see a showdown, especially if UTG folds.

Fiddler · #9 07-27-2005, 04:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If we check the turn behind, do you call a river brick if the action goes:

1) Bet-call?
2) Bet-fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm calling in both cases.

Fiddler · #10 07-27-2005, 04:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If we check the turn behind, do you call a river brick if the action goes:

1) Bet-call?
2) Bet-fold?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yea, I think that is the real question of this hand. I have a hard time putting SB on a hand I beat but without reads I would like to see a showdown, especially if UTG folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, me too but like you say my reads aren't that good yet and I'm willing to put in 1BB on the river.