What's the optimal way for a MTT/STT player to build a bankroll?

[CarlSpackler]

I chose to post this in the MTT forum, because quite frankly, I know a lot more about bankroll management with regards to STT's than with MTT's.

I'm interested in trying to determine the best way for a player to build their bankroll who plays only MTT's and STT's. More specifically, what is the optimal plan to build a bankroll as quickly as possible, with a low risk of ruin. Assume the player's skill level is equal in both STT's and MTT's.

One bankroll building method is to play sng's exclusively. Start at the highest buy-in at which you are both a winning player and have at least 30 buy-ins. We'll call this level A. Continue to play at level A until you reach 30 buy-ins for the next highest buy-in, level B, and then move up. You'll then play at level B until you increase your roll to 30 buy-ins at the next level, C, at which point you'll move up again. If you're losing at level B and your roll falls to 30 buy-ins or less of level A, however, you'll move back down to level A until you build your roll back up to 30 buy-ins of level B.

You repeat this process until you hit the ceiling of your skill level. For example, lets say you are a winning player at level C, but every time you build your roll and move up to level D, you lose and have to drop back down to level C. After repeating this frustrating process 10+ times, it's probably a safe assumption that you have significant leaks which you need to fix to become a winning player at level D. At this point, you stay at level C until you fix your leaks, and then you can try and move up to level D again (with presumably a bigger roll than the 30 buyins to level D).

Or you can just stay at a level where you're a comfortable winner, instead of moving up once you acquire 30 buyins for the next level, and just grind it out there, constantly building your roll.

An alternate bankroll building method would be to play mtt's exclusively. Since there is so much variance in mtt's, however, you would obviously need a lot more buyins as compared to playing sng's only (I don't know how many.... 50? 100?). If you hit a big score early on, then your roll would grow instantaneously. This would be the biggest advantage to playing mtt's only. But you could play exceptionally well and have a 20+ non-cash streak, due to the major variance of MTT's. That's the big downside.

Another method would be to play STT's at a profitable buyin, build a bankroll well beyond the 30 buyins, and then use these winnings to play MTT's. You would then continue to try and build your roll playing MTT's. If your roll fell back down the 30 STT buyin, you would switch back to playing STT's until you rebuilt your roll to take more shots at the MTT's. Or you could regularly switch back and forth between playing STT's and MTT's, effectively funding your MTT entry fees with your STT profits.

In summary, I think that using the STT's only method would have the lowest risk of ruin (and would probably take the longest to build your bankroll), while the MTT's only method would be the fastest way to build your bankroll (but has the highest risk of ruin). So would some sort of hybrid method, similar to the one I described, be the optimal way to build your roll? This hybrid method would entail you essentially playing STT's to pay for your MTT entry fees? I would love to hear everyone's opinion on this, and any other bankroll building methods different from the ones I described.

[daveymck]

Cash games linked with bonus whoring is the best way to build a bankroll initially imho, starting with the cryptos monthly and working round the other sites a la bonus 101 on the bonus whores site. I put this as you asked for other methods not to be a dick theres a lot of free money out there needs to be considered.

I think some sites let tournaments count towards bonuses but is usually a torturous route.

To break the monotony I would go for a balanced hybrid route with sng's being the bread and butter with shots at smaller buyin mtt's mixed in. If you can multi the sng's then you should see decent growth relatively quickly.

[ QUOTE ]
Cash games linked with bonus whoring is the best way to build a bankroll initially imho, starting with the cryptos monthly and working round the other sites a la bonus 101 on the bonus whores site. I put this as you asked for other methods not to be a dick theres a lot of free money out there needs to be considered.

I think some sites let tournaments count towards bonuses but is usually a torturous route.

To break the monotony I would go for a balanced hybrid route with sng's being the bread and butter with shots at smaller buyin mtt's mixed in. If you can multi the sng's then you should see decent growth relatively quickly.

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I basically used this exact method and pesonally I think it's as close to optimal as you can get.

Multi-tabling STTs for money, MTTs for fun.

[Exitonly]

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I think some sites let tournaments count towards bonuses but is usually a torturous route.

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When stars has their bonuses, you get 100% rake back for touranments. Which is sweet.

[ZeeJustin]

MTT's are terrible for bankroll building. The equivelent of 30 SNG buyins for MTT's will be well over 100. The variance is simply too huge.

Stick to STT's (or bonus whoring if you like that suggestion)

[The Don]

The way I did it was this:

1) Play a ton of $11 SNGs on party.
2) Use some of the profits to play $22-33 MTTs.
3) Make a $1k+ score in one of these and go from there.

Of course, just doing SNGs and moving up in stakes would probably be way easier.

I find winning a major tournament to be a tremendous boost to one's payroll.

Now, to actually do that...

After losing about $500 from January to May this year, I started over with a $400 starting bankroll. I started at the $5 STTs, and as my bankroll increased, moved up to the $10 and eventually the $25s,where I was very successful for a couple months. I gradually built up to $2400 or so over about 4 months when I decided to try the $55s which turned out to pretty tough. I broke even for the next month, and then decided to play MTTs almost exclusively. Fortunately I've had a good run, playing the $3 rebuy and $10 no rebuy on Stars, and have had two final tables with deals when we got down to 3 players. Now I feel like I can afford the $5 rebuy and the $20 no rebuy events.

Granted I was very lucky to reach both final tables, but I don't think I would have finished top three or even made the FT without all the SNGs I played earlier this year. I also think it was useful to play at one STT buyin level until I was certain they were profitable before moving up, at least a couple hundred tourneys. That was a real confidence builder. Winning an MTT makes you feel mostly like you got really lucky even if you played extremely well.

Holdemphile

[locutus2002]

[ QUOTE ]
what is the optimal plan to build a bankroll as quickly as possible, with a low risk of ruin.

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these are mutually exclusive.

Your SNG analogy was interesting, the MTT world is a much messier place. Results vary, and are not a good feedback mechanism (maybe in the long run). Probably hand analysis and consensus among better players is the best feedback mechanism for the quality of your play.

Here is my opinion on fast bankroll building.

Turbo rebuys on stars.

W$ and T$ are fungible on stars. (exchangeable for real $).

These tournaments take the least amount of time (your primary resource) and have about a 7:1++ payout. Very low variance for MTTs. The fields are very soft because only the best and luckiest advance to become the softest part of the bigger tournments. You can unregister from the bigger tournament and use your refunded T$ or W$ to play again.

[The Student]

[ QUOTE ]


Here is my opinion on fast bankroll building.

Turbo rebuys on stars.

W$ and T$ are fungible on stars. (exchangeable for real $).

These tournaments take the least amount of time (your primary resource) and have about a 7:1++ payout. Very low variance for MTTs. The fields are very soft because only the best and luckiest advance to become the softest part of the bigger tournments. You can unregister from the bigger tournament and use your refunded T$ or W$ to play again.

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This advice is pure gold. The $11R turbo on Stars to the Sunday $500k guaranteed tournament is the best bankroll builder available. They take about 1.5 hours, and like most rebuys they are pretty crazy during the rebuy period (first 1/2 hour). BEcause they are turbos they also require some luck/skill to stay ahead of the blinds at the end which are very high by the time you reach the bubble. But for a nominal investment (I usually spend about $11 - $44) you have a great shot at winning t$215. once you win the satellite seat, make sure you unregister for that sunday's tourney and you will see that you now have T $215 - this is money that can be spent on MTTs or STTs. i have found that if you push your monsters early, play patiently in the middle levels, and watch the blinds at the end, you usually only have to take one coinflip at the end to get a seat.

the only limiting factor about this route to bankroll building is that you are limited to spending the T$ on stars. of course, once you win some tourneys and convert that T$ into real $, you can then spend it wherever you want.

here's a thread you might find helpful.

gl,

ts-