T7s clearing up the field

aslowjoe · #1 10-23-2005, 12:00 PM

PFR was 50/23 all other players in the pot were 50% VPIP and passive post flop but would occasionaly make stupid bluffs. Buttons raise most likely meant a T. He has been in the game for a short time and hasnt done anthing silly.

I bet out hoping to be raised by MP. When raised by bttn I thought my chice was to either fold or raise to try and get HU with the raiser. By raising it it actually end up costing me less. But let us not be result oriented as some of the time bttn will raise the turn or bet the river.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP raises, 1 fold, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP calls, Button raises, SB folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG folds, MP folds, Button calls.

Turn: (9 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (11 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 11 BB

Stefan_K · #2 10-23-2005, 12:45 PM

i like it, i think you could bet the river thou

TTChamp · #3 10-23-2005, 01:03 PM

I like how he played the river. Do you really think he is ahead enough to fire again? I think button folds a lot of hands that we beat and calls when we are beat.

Also, given the PF cold call by Button, it is very hard to see how we are ahead.

To the original poster, what was your plan if you were raised on the turn. I would have played it like you on the flop, turn and river, but now that I look at it I think there is a case for a check on the turn. Too weak?

Stefan_K · #4 10-23-2005, 01:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I like how he played the river. Do you really think he is ahead enough to fire again? I think button folds a lot of hands that we beat and calls when we are beat.

Also, given the PF cold call by Button, it is very hard to see how we are ahead.

To the original poster, what was your plan if you were raised on the turn. I would have played it like you on the flop, turn and river, but now that I look at it I think there is a case for a check on the turn. Too weak?

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I think that he might call the river with a pair of 6, 3 and some pp. If he has a t with better kicker we have to pay 1 bb when he bet the river and i dont think he will rais us that often. he is still a loose passive

Don't check the turn. we have a lot of hands that we want to fold on the turn. If he had raised the turn it would have been an easy fold

Spicymoose · #5 10-23-2005, 01:28 PM

Pretty bad in my opinion. I like your flop lead, but after 2 callers, and a button (who cold called preflop) who is now raising so many people, what do you put him on? Your 3-bet will get it heads some portion of the time, but the pot is getting huge, and people will call. Even if you do get it heads up, there is not much you are beating. I would rather just call the flop, and probably fold the turn.

What range do you put button on? I'd give him:

JT, QT, KT, AT, JJ, TT, 66, 33

Other possible, but doubtful hands include
T9, T8, T7

The only hands you actually beat are
99, 88, 77
which are also pretty doubtful

On top of all this, even if button is really bad, and has something outside this range, your equity still is shot by all the other players out there.

TTChamp · #6 10-23-2005, 01:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think that he might call the river with a pair of 6, 3 and some pp. If he has a t with better kicker we have to pay 1 bb when he bet the river and i dont think he will rais us that often. he is still a loose passive

Don't check the turn. we have a lot of hands that we want to fold on the turn. If he had raised the turn it would have been an easy fold

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What worries me is the PF cold call. OP said he hadn't seen button do anything too silly. Is this guy cold calling with A6, A3, or 45. Is he cold calling with a weaker ten. What hand do you put him on that we beat on the turn? maybe 77-99? Seems like a loose passive wouldn't raise the field with 77-99. I put this guy on a hand like JJ or AT that he played way too passively.

I think we are most often behind here on the turn. If he raises us on the turn we should call right? We would be getting 12:1. Check folding the river U/I is resonable, but you have to call a turn raise. This is another reason why I think there is some merit to checking the turn.

aslowjoe · #7 10-23-2005, 02:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Pretty bad in my opinion

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you could be right. I am still sort of stuck. My read on bttn isn't great. I only have 20 hands on him he is 50/8/1
which doesnt mean much except we know he his not a maniac or a TAG. For now I am leaning toward it is the wrong thing to do but I do think it is close. If I had 50 hands on button with those stats then it is definetly wrong.

[ QUOTE ]
What range do you put button on? I'd give him:

JT, QT, KT, AT, JJ, TT, 66, 33

Other possible, but doubtful hands include
T9, T8, T7

The only hands you actually beat are
99, 88, 77
which are also pretty doubtful

[/ QUOTE ]

I think to those it is possible that he is rasing with overs.
The most likely hands that I am up against is a dominated
T or JJ. Against those hands I have about a 20% chance of winning. So if I raise and everybody calls I haven't lost that much. If they fold and bttn those have those hands I am spewing. If he has anything else and the others fold my pot equity goes way up.

purnell · #8 10-23-2005, 05:06 PM

I think letting us know that he checked it through on the river has skewed the analysis a bit.

I put him on a better ten, or JJ-QQ. It would take a pretty strong read for me to believe he would raise the field on the flop with anything weaker, and there are no reasonable draws. You showed so much strength on the flop he is afraid of a set or two pair. The turn bet/fold plan is ok IMO, but I think he's almost certainly calling you down, and I can't put him on anything you beat, so I don't think you have a value bet. The real question is, do you call getting 12:1 if he bets the river? I'm not sure, and I think it's pretty close. I know that I would probably call an unknown player's bet, but I also know that I tend to call too often on the end.

#9 10-23-2005, 06:15 PM

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you could be right. I am still sort of stuck. My read on bttn isn't great. I only have 20 hands on him he is 50/8/1
which doesnt mean much except we know he his not a maniac or a TAG.

[/ QUOTE ]

I keep a hud up with my own stats. Sometimes the first 50 or even 100 hands will make me look like something like 35/5/1 or even 10/8/4. This is far different than my overall stats of 25/17/2.

Id say the only read you can get is that he's not a maniac, but that doesnt really count for much here.