Tight-Agressive Outdated?

While reading an interview with Daniel Negreanu I was suprised by his evaluation of playing styles today.

"Negreanu clearly revels in his wild-card reputation, but he says there is a definite method to his madness. He believes it's becoming increasingly difficult to win with a traditional tight-agressive style, in which you wait for big hands and play them forcefully. As a result he enters more pots than anyone at poker's highest levels. While most players get involved in at most two or three hands out of 10, Negreanu doesn't mind playing five or six.
"It's the correct strategy" he says. "In the old days, there was this myth that you have to play tight and only play certain hands. Poker has evolved. The mathematics behind what everybody thought was correct-the 'book play' is absolutely not correct anymore [because there are so many less experienced and often reckless players coming to poker]. It's way too conservative. The way the game was played in 1980, if somebody raised and then there was a reraise, that meant a premium hand. Slansky even wrote that you should lay down pocket Jacks in that situation. Well, the way the game is played now, the first raise could be 10-8 suited and the next raise Ace-8."

I'm very intrigued by this statement. Negraneau's results consinstently show winning results in today's large pools of players. However, I assume his cash game stlye (high stakes) is much more conservative.

Is this the way to play optimum tournament and middle limit Poker for 2005?

(Interview if excerpted from 'Aces and Kings' by Michael Kaplan and Brad Reagan)

Its often noted that at loose tables you should play tight and at tight tables, loose. So while tight aggressive is becoming the norm, a few people are taking advantage and playing a looser game. It doesn't mean that tight-aggressive is outdated, just that there are times to do it, and times to loosen up.

Well, in my opinion tight-agressive still work but in most cases it's not the best strategy anymore precisely there are a lot of players thinking like that, playing like that and by the way, thinking that you should think like that.

You are not taking the most, for sure, if you play the way that are playing at least (sometimes even more) about three or four players at the table.

I dont play tight-agressive at all and almost could say that i refuse my self to do it...

I can give you an example: somedays ago I was at at table, near the button and just after a tight/agressive player that knew me (more or less) and that we had already talked on the msn and so over. On that hand there were already four players on bet when he made a raise (i would be the fifht) and was thinking if i should call or fold having K8s (I am talking about a low limit and loose table and that is the kind of hand that I fold or not depending on the specific conditions). Well, when he raised I immediatly made my decision: call!

I ended winning the hand (what is not so important in itself) but what made he come to talk to me very confused. Since he had Pokertracker and he knew what kind of performance I have he came and told me: «how the hell you called my raise with K8s?... I raised precisely because I wanted you to fold if you had something average like that!»

And my answer was: that is exactly why I called!... And more: your raise made my hand much more easy to play after the flop and enlarged the draws that could became playable. I would have no problem folding it just on the flop if it went useless for me. But if I hit something good on it or a decent draw (or even something average with a backdoor draw) i am on the run for a big pot!

My answer was around that.

Of course, I play most based on implied odds since I play on low limit tables and I know what I am doing after the flop. But, on those days, playing tight and just premium hands is just a waste. You are putting aside profitable hands if you know how to play them... and against who you play them.

That doesnt mean, although, that you cant make money playing tight-agressive. You can, sure, you still can.

It is the best way?

I dont believe it is...

[Triumph36]

This (loose table, tight, tight table, loose) is exactly the maxim that's being challenged by Negraneau - he's saying you have to get in there and gamble with the loose players, rather than wait for big hands and try to smash them that way.

interesting topic, and obviously to any beginners reading this, we are talking about no-limit and guys like negreanu having outstanding reads.

never sure what tight-aggressive is though. waiting around for top 10 hands will make it so you last deep into tournaments but doubt you'll have much chance of cashing in big tournaments.

when i read about well-known players getting eliminated in the last WSOP, i was shocked at how often it was QQ against KK or something similar suggesting people are very tight.

it does strike me though that players like negreanu, hanson and ivey did very well initially taking advantage of tight=aggressive players, but now i'd assume people play back at them and it isn't as effective...although as i said, these guys have great reads too.

dan harrington suggests very tight play early in tournaments and he's done very, very well at WSOP. i think he is very, very aggressive though when the blinds getting bigger

[Ed S.]

Wouldn't that make the variance run a little bit higher?

Ed S.

sorry, maybe i'm confused... but what is "tight/aggressive"???.. is playing A8s on the button with 6 seeing the flop "consistent" with tight aggressive??

i think partially what's happened is that people that played poker heavily 10 years ago were often facing very tight games. so thoughts of flushes and straights weren't as prevalent.

i know if i put my wilson software with all tight players then you are pretty much forced to play pockets pairs and high cards x 2.... you really need loose players to loosen up, i think.

sorry, not sure exactly where that was supposed to be going.

Interesting topic and interesting stament from Daniel Negranue. I sort of thought along similar lines when reading <u>Super System</u>, Doyle talks about putting in a raise with midlevel suited connectors, which is definatley aggressive, but not so tight. But like almost everything in poker I think it definatley depends on the table. It seems today that alot of times those big pocket pairs don't stand up as often as they should in a multi way pot because they are crushed by drawing hands.

[MCS]

Well, DERB seems to think so. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

(see NVG for more on DERB)

[ QUOTE ]
Well, DERB seems to think so. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

(see NVG for more on DERB)

[/ QUOTE ]

Out spreading the word are we?

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]