Bellagio 15/30

[PokerBob]

Schneids sweats me for 4 turd hands, walks away and I pick up KK. UTG here is a lady who from what I have seen may be a bit weak-tight. Doesn't play too many hands, but undervalues them when she does. Villain is an older dude (50ish). I have no read on him at all. It is maybe my 6th orbit at the table, so reads aren't good. Anyone who was paying attention saw me flop a set from the BB my very first hand at the table and play it brilliantly. For whatever that is worth.

UTG limps, I raise UTG+1 with K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

2 cold callers, including old dude. BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop (5 players): 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Chceks to me, I bet, old dude calls, UTG lady calls.

Turn (3 players): 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
lady checks, I bet, Old dude raises, lady cc's 2, I fold. Comments?

[dbecham]

I dont see how you can possibly fold this hand in this situation. I would probably but the old man on two over spades at this point and the lady on a middle pair, possibly 77 or 66 maybe even 99. For these reasons i find it even more unlikely that the old man has 76 and more likely is on the aforementioned flush draw with overs. Other than that he may have 888 and you still have two outs. I am seeing the river and probably going to showdown.

[17percent]

if your going to fold to a raise here i dont understand the bet in the first place.. if your going to play this tight you might as well check/call the turn and hope to spike a king... i would reraise the turn ,, the only player id be woried about is the lady utg.. the odds are very good that you have the old man beat at this point...

[The Truth]

I call here.
If he has 2 pair(besides 45), your read o meter is broke; cause he is a huge donk and you should see this in approx 2 hands. Old lady is beat and likes giving you money.
Question is, does old dude have a set or sraight, 45 or AA or..., A8, Big spade draw, or spade/straight draw, wierdly played QQ, JJ.

You can't 3 bet and fold to a cap, because he might cap a big flush draw and some of the other hands you beat depending on how wild he plays (which we dont know).

You can't fold cause you have huge equity.

I call the turn, and lead any nonspade river.


check/calling the river is an option since you are readless.
check/calling does 2 things.
1. Makes sure you dont fold the best hand.
2. Makes sure the old lady isn't faced with 2 cold and lets you pick up and over call.
if he has a hand
If you bet, and he raises, you pay 2 bets and lose the old lady.
if he doesnt have a hand
you bet he folds, old lady calls.

if you just check, he could bluff at you, and you could pick up his bet and old ladys.

[The Truth]

[ QUOTE ]
if your going to fold to a raise here i dont understand the bet in the first place.. if your going to play this tight you might as well check/call the turn and hope to spike a king... i would reraise the turn ,, the only player id be woried about is the lady utg.. the odds are very good that you have the old man beat at this point...

[/ QUOTE ]

betting and folding to a raise, especially after someone has called 2 cold, is standard in some cases. You dont check/call to the river and lose 2 bets, you bet and fold losing 1 bet, but you make sure if you have the best hand you make your money.
This play is more on the expert level, but it is important to learn; I imagine pokerbob posted this because he wasn't postive if this was the best place to apply this strategy.

resorting to check/calling down is usually a bad idea.

I would only be worried about the old man, the old lady called 2 cold and she is a bad player, this suggest, a spade draw, or any 8. Also likely, gutshots, 2broadway cards, and even middle or bottom pair.
While there is an outside chance of a set or a straight, she is not someone we are afraid of here.

[roy_miami]

I'm dumbfounded as to why you would fold here. Even if you have a read on the old guy being passive you should still call. Without a read you should be calling or re-raising. Old guy likely has a pocket pair, it could be a set or it could be something like JJ. I'm not worried about UTG as there are plenty of draws out there. Horrible fold IMO, too bad Schneids wasn't still there to grab the cards before you chucked them...

[anatta]

I tend to call down here without a good read on BB, maybe turned flush draw like As5s or worse overpair. Possible you draw out on some two pair hand.

That said, I don't think your fold is really that bad. If I had to pick a hand I would say A3s. Maybe he flopped nuts. Sets too. Make no mistake, one pair is not good here the vast majority of the time.

[Lawrence Ng]

I would call the turn.

Lawrence

[philnewall]

You suck big dick.

[philnewall]

Confratualtions the truth, you have the same birthday as me!