your read vs. pot odds

[idxox]

I'm currently multitabling 3 tables of .02/.04 and doing very well.

However, fundamentally speaking, I'm having a difficult time weighing the two opposing concepts of pot odds and your read as to if you think you have the best hand and how that influences your further action.

Basically the problem I'm running into is when you get raised or check-raised on the turn with top pair with a great kicker, and you assume you're behind, let's say you give yourself 3 outs to hit the best two pair, but the pot is only lying 10:1...yet there is a chance that you actually do have the best hand, and this guy is playing overagressively (you don't know because you have no read on him, because you're playing 3 tables).

In this situation would you call then show it down because the pot is big and you don't have a read on him yet? Or would you play conservatively and fold the possible best hand?

At what point is the pot "too small" for you to make this call and showdown?

[John Paul]

2 Points

1) You actually have 5 outs, you could get trips if your bottom pair gets a third card, so 10:1 is enough.

2) Your second question is tougher. I never played .02/.04, and I don't multi-table due to computer limiations. However, my general rule is that I give players credit unless I have seen them do something which indicates that they are likely to bluff raise. If you have no read, I would fold if the pot odds aren't there, and then watch that player in later hands to find out how they play

You could do it like so:

On an uncoordinated hand he is lets say 30% likely to have to a weaker pair, 20% likely to have topset, 20% likely to have bottomset, 20% likely to have an overpair.

That would mean you win 30% of the time.

BTW in my opinion you don't need reads at this level. Just play straightforward and solid. Call down big pots, fold small pots (most of the time) if you aren't sure.

i have never folded a hand at .02/.04

reads arent important....

[RatFink]

If the same question was asked for a 2/4 or 10/20 or 200/400 game instead of .02/.04 would you be able to answer? Not to be a jerk, but this is the microlimits forum and to hear well at that level making the right decisions doesn't matter just seems ironic.

Personally without reads I tend to lean more towards the action meaning what it is intended to and then calculate my odds based on that. Adjusting if it is a big pot and calling down more liberally then.

[Greg J]

You might not have the money necessary to invest in the proper tools (PT and PA) to provide you with HU stats to give you some read despite multitabling. But in the the situation you just described you are probably okay just calling down. The chance you will improve + the chance you are actually ahead (given the poorer competition) probably make calling down okay.

[benkath1]

Multitabling is fine, and at that level, I think reads are just as important as at higher levels. Obviously there's going to be a lot of laggy action, and you want to win the max so you can move up, but if you are playing .02/.04 to 'learn' the game, you shouldn't play 3 tables. Just play one and concentrate on reads untill they are second nature. Then open up another table. When I moved to 2/4 I decided to play one table until I had a note on every player at the table before I opened up the second. That means watching every showdown and noting what kind of hands you are seeing and how they were played.

As far as your hand, I'd probably just call down. You have top pair.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
However, fundamentally speaking, I'm having a difficult time weighing the two opposing concepts of pot odds and your read as to if you think you have the best hand and how that influences your further action.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're confusing things here. The question of how likely you are to have the best hand (or draw to the best hand) impacts whether you are able to bet and raise for value. You only worry about the pot odds when you're pretty certain you don't have the best hand and you want to know if you can call.

In the example you gave TPTK, raised on the turn, you know you have a very good hand (i.e. you are not pretty certain you DON'T have the best hand, as in you're holding KQ, the flop comes Q83r, the turn comes A and you get raised), but you're not certain enough to raise (a turn raise or c/r being a pretty good show of strength, but it could be top-pair-worse kicker, or top pair that just picked up an OESD) you should generally call down without a read.

Does this make any sense at all?

Oh, and not for nothing, but if 3-tabling prevents you from having reads on your opponents then you shouldn't be 3-tabling. You should at minimum be using the available tools to get stat reads, or 1-table and use your eyes and brain.

Well, I said in MY opinion. Personally I don't bother to use reads at .5/1, because people show me J high reguarly on a paired board after calling me down in a small pot.

IMHO one should do more tables instead.

[RatFink]

[ QUOTE ]
Personally I don't bother to use reads at .5/1, because people show me J high reguarly

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that ALL people at the table or just a lot of them? Since you are at the table I assume you wouldn't show J high, so that means not ALL .5/1 players will. Therefore having a read on which will and which will not are useful, regardless of the level.