Empire $200k, on the bubble, play or not? - Page 3

schwza · #21 02-28-2005, 12:11 PM

one thing i'm surprised no one has pointed out is that hero can call, lose the hand, and still make the money if a shorter stack busts in the same hand. maybe not too likely b/c hero is pretty short, but possible - would be a good idea to keep an eye on the other uber-shorts. if one of them is all-in on the blind or something, i think it's a push.

otherwise, i think it's a fold. i thought it was a push at first, but there were good arguments for folding in the thread.

2005 · #22 02-28-2005, 12:55 PM

I understand that sometimes you are going to play just to make the money. What I meant by this is that lacky's play was inconsistent. He was folding every hand when he had a chance to win chips, but when there was no fold equity and he was about to move past the blinds and almost be guaranteed a payday, he decided to call all in. There was seriously a guy with 186 chips in the tournament at this time. I have no problem with playing just to make the money and I've done it before when I was desperate like this, but his play was very inconsistent.

Gavin

lehighguy · #23 02-28-2005, 01:14 PM

Steal alot in late posistion if you can open all in. Almsot any two will do. Be aware of peoples stacks and styles. Remember, you want folds. Don't put someone all in if the blind is half thier stack cause they'll call. You need good reads on the blinds.

I'm not saying you don't end up in this situation, I'm saying that its a much less important situation. I hit a straight flush on the river at the Borgata yesterday. I could post a hand and we could debate the play, but I will never be in that situation again. Topics that come up alot but are tricky like value betting the river with top pair or raising on draws if you think you have fold equity are much more common and much more intellectually stimulating to discuss. I'm not being condescending, I'm just saying your +EV from discussing the more mundane things like having A2o in the CO with large blinds and a stack 4-5BB is much more important. He says he just threw them away, but maybe he shouldn't. A lot of tourney players get weak-tight around the money. I'm trying to open up a whole ew part of the game to him that he might not have considered.

2005 · #24 02-28-2005, 01:40 PM

There was a guy with 186 chips and he wasnt all in this hand

Gavin

Apathy · #25 02-28-2005, 03:38 PM

I really would have folded this if I was in your spot, and if you wanted to go for the big money I would have pushed against one of 2005's steals around the bubble against you [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. I think one time you said you had A6 or something, if you were playing for first I think that might have been a good spot for your money (close though).

The thing is that a triple up really didn't ensure you much more money, and came with quite a bit of risk. If I was more certain that the money was going in heads up rather then against two opponents I would've pushed but in the situation you were in you had to be pretty sure you were getting two callers. Actually I'm pretty surprised they didn't check it down with the hands they had.

b0000000000m · #26 02-28-2005, 04:10 PM

It looks like folding is the right play here, given the very flat payout structure after the initial big payoff for making the money.

What if you had JJ instead? Or TT?

These seem much more difficult than AK.

b0000000000m · #27 02-28-2005, 04:17 PM

My instinct is to play JJ and QQ, but ditch TT. I feel somewhat open to being convinced I'm wrong about JJ, but QQ seems to be not that difficult.

2005 · #28 02-28-2005, 04:32 PM

well, apathy, the A6 hand would have been a terrible spot. I would have been forced to call with my hand(KJ) and he was giving me something like 3.5-1 in a spot where I'm not going to be worse than a 3-2 dog. In fact, I am going to post the hand where you pushed w/ AJ b/c I think that was a big mistake, but we'll see what the rest of the posters think.

Gavin

Apathy · #29 03-01-2005, 12:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
well, apathy, the A6 hand would have been a terrible spot. I would have been forced to call with my hand(KJ) and he was giving me something like 3.5-1 in a spot where I'm not going to be worse than a 3-2 dog. In fact, I am going to post the hand where you pushed w/ AJ b/c I think that was a big mistake, but we'll see what the rest of the posters think.

Gavin

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we have seperate definitions of the word *terrible* getting your money in as a slight favourite when 50 people away from real money is not *terrible*. I agree that it is not a push I was just pointing out an earlier spot where he could have considered gambling rather then the later one that was chosen.

lacky · #30 03-01-2005, 03:05 AM

minor detail, but I pushed with A6s and stole "2005"'s BB, wasn't the other way around. That was the best hand I saw before or after for over about 60 to 70 mins and I did push it.

I looked back and I did fold pocket 3's in the BB to a raiser and a caller, figuring calling all-in for a 3 way pot with 33 was pretty slim. The rest was the Q6, J2, 75 type crap I discribed. I guess I should pick a point beyond which I refuse to drop and push anything before the blinds hit. In sng's I generaly get to this point about 4 to 5x the BB, but am rarely having to push past a full table.

Any guidelines for that?