100nl pair+flush draw, im lost...

Pokerroom 100nl full ring

Relevant stacks
hero 105
MP 91
LP 96

preflop
MP calls, LP calls, Hero is dealt 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in SB and completes, BB checks.

flop
10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
pot 4

Hero checks???, BB checks, MP bets 1.50, LP raises to 5

Being OOP here sucks. Couldn't think of a good line to take with this hand. Should I have lead pot sized on the flop?

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I think checking is fine as is betting. Given it went; check, bet tiny, raise average, I think you could push here or fold. I think calling is the worst option as MP could have a larger flush draw. If you push and he calls with just a flush draw you are thrilled as you already have mid pair. A K in LP would be hard pressed to call imo.

Push? Thats a pretty big overbet...

Im not even going to go into what calls my massive overbet push that doesn't have me drawing to 9 outs.

[RED FACE]

I think a set is the only real disaster here as 2 pair isn't too likely and fold value probably makes up for the difference when you're against a set. That's my thinking anyway.

edit: risking about 90 to win 10 by fold value is acceptable to me considering he's got lots to draw to vs most hands.

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Pokerroom 100nl full ring

Relevant stacks
hero 105
MP 91
LP 96

preflop
MP calls, LP calls, Hero is dealt 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in SB and completes, BB checks.

flop
10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
pot 4

Hero checks???, BB checks, MP bets 1.50, LP raises to 5

Being OOP here sucks. Couldn't think of a good line to take with this hand.

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Having been recommended to answer other people hand queries I thought I'd get in first on this one...
[I'd qualify my advice by also saying right now I'm losing a lot - and am a newbie - more than just a pinch of salt may be required..]

aaanyway...

I always tend to complete the small blind with any 2 cards if unraised and then bin them unless I hit a monster flop - I almost always check - let the rest of the table bet how they will and then assess the damage when it's my turn again.

This hand I'd fold. Your 3/1 underdog and LP I'd guess has at least TP - MP has the option of reraising you and your getting less than 2-1 on your bet. (risking 5 to win 9)

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Should I have lead pot sized on the flop?

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depends on how you view your opponents - if they'll mostly fold I'd consider it - the only time I'd bet the pot when I'm the SB on the flop is if I I have a monster hand - or I'm sure my opponents will fold to a pot sized bet but not a half pot sized one.

[RED FACE]

Okay, how about this as an alternative. You call the flop and *if* MP folds you will now be able to be confident if you hit your flush. So you call and MP folds and hit your flush on the turn. Your T high flush could stand some protecting thus a psb is in order but you want to get paid off OOP so check instead-this may be enough to get you paid off by a strong K on the a river blank. So villain checks behind on the turn scare card, river blanks and you bet a little more than 1/2 the pot, get called and win about a $33 pot. If villain bets after you on the turn I definitely think it's time to raise your flush strong enough for him to fold an A high flush draw.

[ajmargarine]

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I'd qualify my advice by also saying right now I'm losing a lot......

.........I always tend to complete the small blind with any 2 cards if unraised

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Stop doing this and it will help a little. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

As for the hand, reads would be helpful. Depending on who the villians are, I may lead $3 into that pot. It really disguises your hand as villians will put you on a K.

I always note my second card in situations like this. The 8 looks pretty clean, so if one comes I have two pair. Whereas if I had T9s and a nine came, it completes a potential straight on the board. Just something to be aware of.

As played, if you call, they know you are drawing. So you shouldn't get paid a penny more if a diamond hits on the turn. So calling kind of sucks. Having the T though gives you potentially 5 more outs to take the hand (2 T's and 3 8's). How about a c/r to about $20? That looks very strong after a bet and a raise and it should fold out most hands. And if called your hand still has quite a bit of potential.

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This hand I'd fold. Your 3/1 underdog and LP I'd guess has at least TP - MP has the option of reraising you and your getting less than 2-1 on your bet. (risking 5 to win 9)


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This is ridiculously weak. You are favored here against any single pair. You have 9 outs to the flush, two outs to the set of tens, and 3 outs to your 8 to make two pair. That is no less than 14 outs here with two cards to come, you have a monster draw (assuming your flush draw is good and that they only have top pair or an over pair). You should be trying to get as much money in the pot as possible here. If you think your oppenent has a higher flush draw, you might want to push right here to push him out of the pot and possibly take it down here. If you think you are up against two kings, re-raise a reasonable amount and call any bets, three handed you are almost getting odds just to draw to your flush. It is always possible that someone has a set already or are open ended with 8-9, but if it stays 3 handed you are certainly getting odds against the range of hands your opponents are on. Sure, about half the time your draw doesn't hit, but thats poker, you actually got sucked out on if that happens.

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Im not even going to go into what calls my massive overbet push that doesn't have me drawing to 9 outs.

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Here is the problem with this. You are thinking about a worst case senario, without putting the villains on a range of hands. Yeah, you are drawing to 9 outs against a set, who definately calls, what percentage of the time does your opponent have a set here? What hands have you seen these villians play limping.. in most low limit games, this would include lots of K-x hands. I think the times you get called with a set are balanced out by the times you cause a K-rag to fold and the 1/3 of the time you suck out on the set. I think this is very weak-tight to fold this hand here in a cash game.