10/10 in a raised Pot from BB $2/$4 Blinds

[NickPoker]

He had position so he checked behind

[phuc]

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I don't like the flop. You are WA/WB. Why do you c/r? I would prefer c/c, lead turn.

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So you think he should check/call the flop and lead the turn if no overcard comes? What if an overcard comes on the turn? Do you check/fold? Isn't this way too weak/passive? I like leading out the flop and folding to a raise or check-raising a decent size on the flop...if I get called on the flop after leading out, I bet about 1/2 pot. If I get called on the flop after check-raising, I'm not sure what I do...I guess after this thought, I prefer leading the flop and folding to a raise.

What should be done if I check-raise the flop and get called? My thoughts are check/fold if there were no real draws on the flop for the original raiser to be calling with (such as flush draw), but that may be too tight (because 99 may take the pot down if the original raiser bets the turn).

[TheWorstPlayer]

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So you think he should check/call the flop and lead the turn if no overcard comes? What if an overcard comes on the turn? Do you check/fold?

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If it's an ace, yes, if not, no.
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Isn't this way too weak/passive? I like leading out the flop and folding to a raise or check-raising a decent size on the flop...if I get called on the flop after leading out, I bet about 1/2 pot.

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What is calling you on the flop? I think at this level it is pretty safe to assume that he is going to fold ace high and he will call with an overpair. So your way, you lose the same against an overpair and you win less against ace high. I don't see how that could possibly be better.
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If I get called on the flop after check-raising, I'm not sure what I do...I guess after this thought, I prefer leading the flop and folding to a raise.


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You're right that c/r is worse. It is quite bad, in fact, IMO.

[Godfather80]

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I like the line too. However, if you put a play on the guy on the flop and show aggression and he still calls, you have to give him credit for a hand. He's likely sitting there wondering what you have that you called a raise and led out the flop. That would scare an AK to be much more cautious unless he's really aggressive. If he bets turn, he's likely got more than TT. If he's got AK, you've got to give it up and give him credit because you are OOP and his agressiveness is too much.

With mid pairs like that gameplan should be to call a raise. If the flop is lower than your pair, bet out or c/r, and if called, be prepared to let go on turn or river.

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This style of play (weak-tight) is meat for any decent aggressive player. You might as well tell your opponents your hand if you are going to play it this way all of the time. Good opponents will simply learn to fold when you show solid aggression late in a hand and bet you off with anything when you don't.

[phuc]

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So you think he should check/call the flop and lead the turn if no overcard comes? What if an overcard comes on the turn? Do you check/fold?

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If it's an ace, yes, if not, no.

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Isn't this way too weak/passive? I like leading out the flop and folding to a raise or check-raising a decent size on the flop...if I get called on the flop after leading out, I bet about 1/2 pot.

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What is calling you on the flop? I think at this level it is pretty safe to assume that he is going to fold ace high and he will call with an overpair. So your way, you lose the same against an overpair and you win less against ace high. I don't see how that could possibly be better.

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I see. This makes a lot of sense and I like your line. You are taking the chance that if he has an Ace, you will let him draw at it with probably 3-outs. If he has any other overcard, you may pay him off if it hits the turn. That's where I'm worried about the check/call though. I'm assuming in most cases, you will be WA/WB as you said, but are we assuming that if he hits an overcard other than an Ace, you are paying him off on the turn and the river anyway?

Let's say you check/call the flop and lead out the turn (even if it is an overcard except an Ace)? Do you check/call the river if any overcard hits or do you bet out (overcard includes an Ace)? Are you calling 3/4 size pot bet on the river if you check? (He may have an overpair, just Ace-high, or hit any other overcard on the turn, but Ace-high isn't likely due to the turn call)?

[TheWorstPlayer]

As I said before, I'm leading on the turn (prob around 2/3 pot) and then I'm c/f the river if I get there.

[phuc]

That sounds good. I'm still learning so thanks for your responses.

[TheWorstPlayer]

No problem. The key in these situations is to put yourself in the other person's shoes. If you are ahead of them then they must have such a fragile hand that they should be very wary of putting money into the pot. Therefore, if they have the choice of putting more money into the pot or less money, if they are holding a hand you are beating, they should be choosing less money. If they are choosing more money, it is probably because they don't have a hand you can beat. So if they raise ever, you fold. If they bet when they can check, you fold (except for the flop continuation bet). That's my basic view of the best ABC line against completely ABC opponents. This governs most of SSNL.

[kingofswing]

A decent player with overcards would respect your tightness and put you on a real hand if you check raise this flop. He would know he's not getting the odds to call and your check-raise could be a mid-pair all the way to rockets. Unless he is just flat out reckless with his chips, he's going to lay that one down. If he calls, you have to give him credit for something. If he's that bad to call a raise on the flop with just AK in raised pot, then screw this hand, I can find plenty of other good opportunities where I've got him drawing dead when he calls on the flop.