|
|
#21
10-10-2005, 06:03 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: I dislike AQ example 1
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Bet the river Given the likely hands of UTG, his most likely hands are AQ, AK, AJ, KQs and you might be able to fold him out of it. [/ QUOTE ] Betting the river is horrible. You'll never get a better hand to fold. Other A-high hands often won't fold either. You do not really represent any hand that hit this board, so villain will call pretty liberally here. Betting will just cause you to chop a lot and lose the rest of the time. You're also never getting called by a worse hand, obviously. [/ QUOTE ] Do you bet AK here? 
|
|
#22
10-10-2005, 06:12 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: I dislike AQ example 1
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Bet the river Given the likely hands of UTG, his most likely hands are AQ, AK, AJ, KQs and you might be able to fold him out of it. [/ QUOTE ] Betting the river is horrible. You'll never get a better hand to fold. Other A-high hands often won't fold either. You do not really represent any hand that hit this board, so villain will call pretty liberally here. Betting will just cause you to chop a lot and lose the rest of the time. You're also never getting called by a worse hand, obviously. [/ QUOTE ] Do you bet AK here? [/ QUOTE ] I don't see much reason to bet AK here once the 8 comes, because now we are chopping with all the other A highs and will get called fairly liberally. I can see more upside to betting AK unimproved on this river when the river doesn't make two pair, as I think another AK is more likely to fold (I think many people would rather call with A-high on the two pair board than on just a junk board) and because there are other A-high hands we are beating which we might get called by. A major reason I don't like betting here is that the pot is under 7 BB at this point. Our bet is thus only looking to buy like 3.5 BB if we can buy our way out of a chop, and so we need to have this work almost 1 in 4 times to be valuable.
|
|
#23
10-10-2005, 06:13 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: I dislike AQ example 1
I for one cannot BELIEVE the weak tight advice I am seeing here. Autofold AQo to an unknown early position raiser in $3-$6? Madness. In the absence of information to the contrary, I assume unknown opponents are poor. I believe that Ed Miller specifically emphasizes this concept in SSH, although I may have the wrong book, I can't recall. If you can't assume that an unknown player is poor, you need to find a better table.
I have an excellent hand with position. I am not folding unless I get a read. My hand is offsuit, so I would like to shut out the field. I raise. I gather information about the strength of my opponent's hand. Does he cap? If he caps and I miss, I am done with the hand. If he caps and I hit, I play very, very carefully unless I hit it very, very hard. 3 betting allows me to win many pots where I am not best but my opponent can't call. 3 betting takes control of the pot. 3 betting AQ conditions my opponents to call me down when I have AK, AA, KK, etc. Do I run into big hands like AA, KK, QQ, and AK? Of course. But AQo is a tidy winner for me over the last 50k hands.
|
|
#25
10-10-2005, 06:39 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: I dislike AQ example 1
[ QUOTE ]
I for one cannot BELIEVE the weak tight advice I am seeing here. Autofold AQo to an unknown early position raiser in $3-$6? Madness. In the absence of information to the contrary, I assume unknown opponents are poor. I believe that Ed Miller specifically emphasizes this concept in SSH, although I may have the wrong book, I can't recall. If you can't assume that an unknown player is poor, you need to find a better table. I have an excellent hand with position. I am not folding unless I get a read. My hand is offsuit, so I would like to shut out the field. I raise. I gather information about the strength of my opponent's hand. Does he cap? If he caps and I miss, I am done with the hand. If he caps and I hit, I play very, very carefully unless I hit it very, very hard. 3 betting allows me to win many pots where I am not best but my opponent can't call. 3 betting takes control of the pot. 3 betting AQ conditions my opponents to call me down when I have AK, AA, KK, etc. Do I run into big hands like AA, KK, QQ, and AK? Of course. But AQo is a tidy winner for me over the last 50k hands. [/ QUOTE ] Lol. I love the SS forum. I got called a nit for advising to fold the turn in the KTs hand, yet people advocate folding AQ here in a typical 3/6 game. I virtually never fold this and only rarely have I ever lost to the case AA/KK/AK. How can you people follow instructions so well without understanding why is beyond me. I fold AQ here only if the opposition is a rock. The same people advocating folding AQ here are the same people that constantly need to show this down UI, think about that.
|
|
#26
10-10-2005, 07:10 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: I dislike AQ example 1
I really can't even comment on your first paragraph; it is straight donkey material. Go read small stakes hold'em then pm Ed Miller and tell him he is a weak tighty because of his advice regarding playing AQo. Trust me (and you can read for yourself), his book is not in line with your suggestions about how to play this hand. Sure your reasoning regarding position, limiting the field, gathering information is right on, but you have picked the wrong hand to do this with.
P.S. Assuming all the other players are idiots is idiotic; in most cases they are not that dumb and you are not that good. Ed Miller does not advocate presuming a player you have never played against is an idiot. In fact, if you look in just about any reputable poker book there will be some statement along the lines "never underestimate your opponent". "I have an excellent hand with position. I am not folding unless I get a read" LOL. Get a grip. Sometimes you just have to fold nice hands and it has nothing to do with being weak.
|
|
#27
10-10-2005, 07:14 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: I dislike AQ example 1
[ QUOTE ]
I really can't even comment on your first paragraph; it is straight donkey material. Go read small stakes hold'em then pm Ed Miller and tell him he is a weak tighty because of his advice regarding playing AQo. Trust me (and you can read for yourself), his book is not in line with your suggestions about how to play this hand. Sure your reasoning regarding position, limiting the field, gathering information is right on, but you have picked the wrong hand to do this with. P.S. Assuming all the other players are idiots is idiotic; in most cases they are not that dumb and you are not that good. Ed Miller does not advocate presuming a player you have never played against is an idiot. In fact, if you look in just about any reputable poker book there will be some statement along the lines "never underestimate your opponent". "I have an excellent hand with position. I am not folding unless I get a read" LOL. Get a grip. Sometimes you just have to fold nice hands and it has nothing to do with being weak. [/ QUOTE ] Poker Room Total EV stats ordered by value Cards EV Count AA 2.32 550,632 KK 1.67 551,878 QQ 1.22 549,570 JJ 0.86 550,948 AK s 0.77 367,870 AQ s 0.59 368,178 TT 0.58 550,156 AK 0.51 1,106,047 AJ s 0.43 367,811 KQ s 0.39 366,191 99 0.38 552,062 AT s 0.33 367,393 AQ 0.31 1,101,249
|
|
#28
10-10-2005, 07:19 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: I dislike AQ example 1
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I really can't even comment on your first paragraph; it is straight donkey material. Go read small stakes hold'em then pm Ed Miller and tell him he is a weak tighty because of his advice regarding playing AQo. Trust me (and you can read for yourself), his book is not in line with your suggestions about how to play this hand. Sure your reasoning regarding position, limiting the field, gathering information is right on, but you have picked the wrong hand to do this with. P.S. Assuming all the other players are idiots is idiotic; in most cases they are not that dumb and you are not that good. Ed Miller does not advocate presuming a player you have never played against is an idiot. In fact, if you look in just about any reputable poker book there will be some statement along the lines "never underestimate your opponent". "I have an excellent hand with position. I am not folding unless I get a read" LOL. Get a grip. Sometimes you just have to fold nice hands and it has nothing to do with being weak. [/ QUOTE ] Poker Room Total EV stats ordered by value Cards EV Count AA 2.32 550,632 KK 1.67 551,878 QQ 1.22 549,570 JJ 0.86 550,948 AK s 0.77 367,870 AQ s 0.59 368,178 TT 0.58 550,156 AK 0.51 1,106,047 AJ s 0.43 367,811 KQ s 0.39 366,191 99 0.38 552,062 AT s 0.33 367,393 AQ 0.31 1,101,249 [/ QUOTE ] NOTICE AQ IS ON THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST. PLEASE HOPE YOU UNKNOWN OPPONENT DOES NOT HAVE ONE OF THE HANDS ABOVE YOU! NICE POST
|
|
#29
10-10-2005, 07:24 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: I dislike AQ example 1
[ QUOTE ]
A major reason I don't like betting here is that the pot is under 7 BB at this point. Our bet is thus only looking to buy like 3.5 BB if we can buy our way out of a chop, and so we need to have this work almost 1 in 4 times to be valuable [/ QUOTE ] This is not a true statement since if we chop our bet doesn't lose any $$ b/c we get our original bet back. We only lose when we are called by a hand that beats us. If we are sure our opponent has an ace we should bet every time b/c if he folds just one time, our bet shows profit
|
|
#30
10-10-2005, 07:26 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: I dislike AQ example 1
[ QUOTE ]
Do you bet AK here? [/ QUOTE ] There is actually more value to be gained by betting a weaker hand like AT or AJ when the board doesn't pair on the river as opposed to AK. W/AT or AJ you are more likely to fold a hand that has you beat than by betting AK.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
