Calling Away

QTip · #1 10-11-2005, 12:08 PM

UTG+1 is quite aggressive and tighter than most

The other 2 in this hand both have vpips over 60 and really like to call. However, the one behind me is quite aggressive on top of his 60 vpip.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, MP3 calls, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, MP3 calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, MP3 calls, UTG calls.

River: (11.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls

toss · #2 10-11-2005, 12:12 PM

I'd raise the turn. Flush draws scare me. 7.25 BB is good enough for me.

sean c · #3 10-11-2005, 12:16 PM

I think your giving up to much value by not raising the turn.

Octopus · #4 10-11-2005, 12:19 PM

I would raise either the flop or the turn. What is your thinking here?

jason_t · #5 10-11-2005, 12:20 PM

Raise the turn. Win large pots immediately. Protect your hand.

QTip · #6 10-11-2005, 12:25 PM

Seems like everyone is liking raising the turn. Glad I posted this, cuz I wasn't really sure about this one. At the time, I was thinking I could get the most value here by simply taking the overcalls. Didn't really feel protection was something I could do anyway.

jason_t · #7 10-11-2005, 12:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Didn't really feel protection was something I could do anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

You might be missing the point of protection.

Dagger78 · #8 10-11-2005, 12:28 PM

Wouldn't they probably call a raise on the turn (at least one of them will). You're winning 4 BB on the turn and river, and if you raise the turn you're going to win 3BB if he calls you down and 6BB if they both do. I'd raise the turn, if not the flop.

Were you hoping for a raise behind you so you could 3-bet?

SmileyEH · #9 10-11-2005, 12:32 PM

I don't think this hand is as clear cut as people are saying. Opps are either drawing to 2 outs, 3 outs, or 8 outs. Because you have redraws, you can put the outs as more like 2, 3, and 6. You win the most if the 2 and 3 outers call the flop and turn instead of folding, so calling is better. But you win less if someone has 6 outs. Since these guys are calling stations, their range is wider than pairs and flush draws, they could even be drawing dead. I don't think the flush draw is out there more than half the time...this is rambling, but it's not that clearcut IMO.

-SmileyEH

QTip · #10 10-11-2005, 12:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think this hand is as clear cut as people are saying. Opps are either drawing to 2 outs, 3 outs, or 8 outs. Because you have redraws, you can put the outs as more like 2, 3, and 6. You win the most if the 2 and 3 outers call the flop and turn instead of folding, so calling is better. But you win less if someone has 6 outs. Since these guys are calling stations, their range is wider than pairs and flush draws, they could even be drawing dead. I don't think the flush draw is out there more than half the time...this is rambling, but it's not that clearcut IMO.

-SmileyEH

[/ QUOTE ]

Those were my thoughts as well. Just because they're calling doesn't mean much in the way of # of outs.